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Greetings everyone!
Calls_To_Myself
"Comments On..."
Comments from Elftown.com's "Calls_To_Myself" wiki-page,
the site owner is concealing from the public's view:
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-- Originally, this website was to be to help promote www.elftown.com, a site I have loved and given MUCH to,
but in lieu of the latest stunt by the owner, it has taken on a whole
new agenda.
-This site is going to reveal the REAL truth behind www.elftown.com!-
--
--
In regards to my graphics and ALL my work on www.elftown.com:
---
In regards to ANY and ALL of MY creativity on www.elftown.com NO ONE is allowed to use it, alter or modify it, or anything
else without my expressed written permission per item on the site itself or off. This INCLUDES Elftown members as well.
In lieu of what transpired on 2011-08-26, making it abundantly clear BY THE OWNER that I am not wanted on the site, just after a
particular message was placed in my guestbook on www.artsieladie.com by
Hans. So then, neither is my creativity to be used by
anyone, INCLUDING Elftown members as well, unless I have given my expressed written permission per item, per creative work of
mine of ANY kind to an individual AFTER 2011-08-26. I, Artsieladie, aka Sharon Donnelly, am the SOLE COPYRIGHT OWNER of
my creative works, whether they be art-art, written, concepts, ideas, etc..
No one has or has been the given the right to preside over ANY of MY work whatsoever. NO ONE, not even Henrik Hedda Wallin!
Since he is the one holding my creativity hostage, disallowing me access to MY WORK, if MY copyright is infringed upon in ANY
way: ANY of MY WORK used, modified, destroyed, stolen, etc., it is "he" that will be held accountable as well as anyone else whom
takes part in the infringing.
If there is anyone that needs to do some serious explaining, it is the owner of Elftown.com particularly his involvement with the sub-
ject matter just below for starters, for which he is denying knowing 'anything' about, in spite of the fact the data presented points directly
at him. I have been treated like crap by both him and several others on Elftown.com, and I think it is a fair and just, reasonable expec-
tation and fully within MY rights to deny others, regardless of whom
they are, the use of MY work, because first, it IS mine and I have
the FULL say about MY WORK, and second, it is not right to treat someone as I've been treated and then still expect to have the priv-
ilege to use my work in ANY way, shape, or form, when meanwhile the creator of said work has been treated like garbage and then
kicked to the curb and all because the creator began to ask questions.
But yet I've been told on the site that I should not be or see things this way. Basically, in a nutshell I was told I should just leave,
but leave my work for others to be able to make use of and enjoy. But.. I'm not supposed to feel slighted or offended and the fact
that I object to such treatment, I'm accused then of being overly dramatic and harbouring a "tortured soul"! In fact two terms that
were used to describe me were: "psychobitch 3 and drama queen" and there's a whole lot more that has been directed at me,
which I can also present to the world, if it comes to this point, from several members' diaries, guestbooks, and forum postings. If
my hand is forced to do this, I will do exactly this. Then those whom have looked down their noses at me, jeered and ridiculed me,
took pleasure in victimising me even more, can feel just a little of what they have put me through.
I'm expected to take whatever is flung at me on the chin, but say
nothing. Then to be threatened by the owner that my name would be
permanently defiled across the Internet should I tell my side of
things, tells me the truth must bear with it something that could result
in
some unpleasant repercussions for the one threatening should
it surface. If there is nothing hidden or to hide, what IS the problem?
It
is a well known fact, those with information to divulge
that could expose "secret activity" of another or others, are very often
intimidated
by threats and acts of malice made against them,
all to keep the whistleblower from spilling the beans. In lieu of being
presented with
some pertinent information recently, displaying a
person on the site has had it on their agenda to get rid of my presence
on the site
since 2007, this explains a whole lot. But yet,
this person has been thrown in my face over and over and over again,
that "I" am the one
that transgressed against this person, when
in fact, the person HAS had it on THEIR AGENDA to get rid of me AND
well BEFORE
anything even began to unravel. Therefore, my gut instincts, have been right on the money!
----
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Now I present you with the comments from the Elftown.com wiki-page:
(Which I have backed up in two different ways!)
--
2011-05-05 [Sir_Hans]:
Not a single comment to this page and its categorical affiliated pages?
This information places definite suspicion on one person on this site,
but all those that have had so much to say against Sharon now have
nothing to say?
-Hans
2011-06-20 [pixish]:
Maybe if she'd been upfront about any of her issues instead of going
about the place telling half of a story with her 'I know something you
don't know...but I'll tell you...one day' attitude things might have
been different. Maybe if she had bothered to pay attention or
acknowledge all of the helpful advice people had given her in regards to
her problems that she didn't want to hear - things could have been
different. Maybe people would have cared, but I think this has just gone
on for too long and she has hurt and annoyed a lot of people. She wants
help now, when people were offering it long ago and their help was
ignored. To be honest, everyone's a bit tired of the drama. :)
-pixie
2011-06-20 [pixish]: But it's so great that she has you, Hans! Why don't you take her on a nice holiday or something and give her a break ;)
2011-06-20 [Artsieladie]:
Upfront with any of my issues??? :( When I tried to be, I was
repeatedly doubted, circumvented, and ridiculed, but only with "certain"
parts, the parts of which that could be twisted against me.
Do you or does anyone here know, I mean KNOW FIRST HAND, what it is like
to finally have to face the fact that your life has become WAAAAAAAY
more interesting to someone else than it should be? ..And 'should be'
because someone is using ABNORMAL MEANS to learn about you, to watch
every thing you do, read every thing you write, and then to ALSO find
out that topics in your PRIVATE "phone conversations" are also sprouting
seedlings as well?
Do you or does ANY BLOODY ONE here KNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW what it
is like to finally KNOW that your computer is being monitored by someone
else, but because it is such a DIFFICULT thing to prove, because as
with "most" computer users, I do not very often have an audience with me
while I'm using my computer, your ONLY recourse is to try and get every
bit of evidence you possibly can, save it, document it, time line it,
correlate it, etc., until you FINALLY have enough to where you can
finally see a "common denominator"? ..And then, to have the fact that
because you used the only recourse you had, you were ridiculed even
more, because you in essence did the SMART thing and gathered whatever
proof you could.
But... BUT... then when what you have gathered enough to which it points
to ONE person, but that person is someone you don't really WANT it to
be, and God knows I DIDN'T and I still DON'T! ...you are then literally
torn up inside, because you then know you ultimately will have to point a
finger at a person you have admired and thought so highly of, is thee
person that is at the very root of your subjugation. I didn't want this
to be him! I was hoping that 'someone' here could make him see that what
he was doing to me was wrong and that they could just get him to stop,
but first... FIRST... I needed ONE bloody person here to at the very
least, give me just a one tiny ounce of credit, that I wasn't just
saying what I was saying to hear myself talk. But any of those that I
NEEDED to listen, refused to listen, but worse, they dismissed what I
was going through and then ADDED ridiculing me on as an extra slap in my
face.
I needed people to at least have an open mind that what I was at first
suspecting, but then forced by evidence collected, was something I WAS
and STILL AM going through. But no, I did not get an ounce of
consideration in this regard. I was immediately and repeatedly said to
be "imagining" everything, that I was just a paranoid lunatic that
needed to get help. Then as though this wasn't enough, I was then also
put down and made a mockery of for all I have done for this site. My
dedication was sneered at and called obsession. Others here are
"dedicated" but I am "obsessed"?
Lerune is the ONLY one that was willing to listen. Hence, she became the
only one that took the initiative to investigate and so, she learned
herself that I wasn't just making everything up. She was the ONLY one
that cared to hear what I was needing for people here to hear, but
others chose instead to turn a deaf ear, or minimise or try to get me to
buy something that I knew wasn't right because I knew "something" was
going on that shouldn't have been going on, and so did they, know the
same, but didn't want to believe that what I was experiencing, I really
was, and then participated in the mockery of me, which IS called mobbing,
if anyone cares to know. It wouldn't have been quite so bad if anyone
would have at least, given me an ounce of credit that what I was saying
or trying to, could in fact possibly BE true, but no one
did, until Lerune couldn't just let it be simply dismissed, because as
most people are aware of, even the biggest, most unimaginable thing, has
a beginning. But people here treated me like I was just pulling
everything out of my hat for the hell of it, which if anyone knew me
personally, as my sister does, my daughter does, and Hans does, to name a
few, then they would know that I'm not the kind of person that merely
goes around dreaming and scheming things up. I have more than enough on
my plate as it is, so I am certainly not about to just pile more on top
of it. But even people that KNOW me personally and spoke on my behalf,
well then, I was simply imagining them all as well!
Did I go about things the right way? No, I made many mistakes, but I
can't take them back. But... I am not the ONLY one here that has made
mistakes and I am certainly not the one that's "hiding the truth".
There are people here now that know what I have been subjected to AND
they know that their quick judgment of me was erroneous, but do they
stand up and say so? Not yet!
I have offered and I have said several times, that I would just like ALL
of this to be put out on the table and discussed so ALL that ultimately
became involved can get this ironed out, to put it to rest, put it
behind all of us, INCLUDING Hedda, but NO ONE as far as I can see is
willing to do this. Therefore, it stands to reason that I am not the
ONLY one that has some stuff to face up to and admit. At least however, I
am a big enough person to be willing to give it one hell of a shot.
Anyone want to also "stand up to the plate"?
In the very beginning when everything was still in its beginning stages,
"I" went to Hedda about what I suspected was happening; just suspected
at that point. I did so for the purpose of getting to the bottom of what
I thought at the time, "may" be going on. I wanted to nip in the bud
whatever it was at that point, because I didn't want it to spiral out of
control, develop into something bigger, as so many here now know that
it has, but instead of Hedda being forthright with me then, he chose an
alternate route, which only contributed to everything that has
transpired since. It was when I could get no answers from Hedda, that I
then went the alternate route "I" did, to try and get some answers, but
basically all I got was stonewalled ultimately with this route as well.
But yet, all that has transpired is ALL my fault and everyone else that
became involved is blameless? I have no problem with being accountable
for my errors in judgment and resulting actions, but I'll be damned if I
will be accountable for ALL the wrongdoings of others. My
accountability for my errors is my job; the accountability for the
errors of others belongs with those that have made them.
Hedda told Hans that "he" knows NOTHING about this... what you see for
yourself on this page. What does this say to anyone? Just like Hedda
doesn't KNOW anything about a certain little red heart either, I
suppose? Bullcrap! I KNOW FOR A FACT that Hedda put the heart in my
badge slot AND Hans witnessed the very same, but yet, I am expected to
back down and say that he didn't? ..And so is Hans who also witnessed
it? In order for me to do this, "I" would have to lie and say that Hedda
did not put it there, that he did not also take the VERY SAME HEART out
when he banned me (not any other heart, mind ya, just.. that.. 'one'),
but "I" am NOT going to lie for Hedda nor anyone else!
But... what's even more important about that little red heart placement
IS the oddity that Hedda does not want to acknowledge he did. Why? Who
is it here that can't know that he did? Is placing a little red heart in
Artsie's badge slot by the mayor himself such a terrible thing? Is it a
crime of some sort here on Elftown? If he had given say, Sunrose, just
for an example, a little red heart in 'her' badge slot, would he have
then denied he did? In fact, why has Hedda gone the route he has..
period? I have noticed that some here don't seem to like the fact that I
liked Hedda. Why? In fact, I still do like Hedda. All I want from Hedda
is for him to be honest with me and to give 'me' the chance to
understand why he has done and does what he does. I want the chance to
be given to me to forgive him by him and he is the only one that can. This is not something that anyone else can do for
him, although he may think others can intercede for him. They cannot.
..And is it also possible, if the same were to be in reverse about whom
liking whom, would this be such a terrible thing, too?
It's so easy for some here to stand in judgment of me and say that this
is the way I should have done this or that or that is the way I should
have done this or that, but I would certainly like to know how anyone
here can presume to know anything, considering they haven't been going
through the same kind of hell that I have. No one can presume to know
anything any better or how they would do things any better, if they
haven't been made to walk in the same shoes as another has been made to
walk in.
I still love Elftown. In fact I am still doing things behind the scenes
for this site. Anyone else in my shoes wouldn't even slightly entertain
an inkling to do anything for this site whatsoever, but my love for
Elftown is greater than the pain I've had to endure here, and so, yes, I
can say with absolution that I truly LOVE Elftown. It is not
obsession.. it IS dedication to/for something, a community, a place, I
still DO believe in and if there's ANYONE here that wants to deny me
this, dispute this? Well, then, too bad, because my commitment to this
site SPEAKS VOLUMES! Like it, or lump it!
Instead of displaying resentment towards me because I am and have been
committed to seeing this site be all it can be, I think it's about damn
time I was cut a little damn slack and given an ounce of credit at least
that I'm dedicated, NOT obsessed. Because I put together a "private"
page about what I've done for this site BECAUSE I AM PROUD OF THE FACT
THAT I HAVE and still am, this does not give ANYONE the bloody right to
come onto MY PRIVATE PAGE and start to harass me, which began with a
vice mayor and a guard at the time, but the guard is now the vice mayor.
I DID NOT start the whole shebang that transpired on my 'love for a
community - Elftown' page and even when I tried to stop it by getting
rid of the harassing comments, in hopes it would just blow over, go
away, I was still then repeatedly harassed and then several other people
here just capitalised on the whole thing, making 'me' out to be the bad
person in it all. But the two instigators that started it all, refuse
to stand up to the plate and acknowledge this fact.
*sigh* But all this does me absolutely no good, so I don't even know why
I bother. All those that have basked in making me out to be some awful
person, aren't willing to tell their part in all of this. I've been the
one that was literally ostracised and unmercifully crucified here, put
through a hell that likely most can't even begin to imagine nor even
care to, and no one that should care to try and make things right here
can be so bothered. Instead, just label all I've been subjected to as
"drama", so it can be just shoved conveniently under the rug... and of
course, still.. at MY expense. I hope it makes everyone its applicable
to, feel so much better about themselves. But just remember, I'm still
the one that even though wronged, am still willing to work this out, but
I will NOT "lie" to do this, because lies don't heal, they just make
the wounds deeper.
2011-06-20 [SilverFire]:
Since I've just been mentioned, I'll drop in a two-cents, but I'll not
be watching this page, so if you have an issue with me, you can message
me about it (by the way, I never received a reply to the last message I
sent you, in which I DID say: "For my part, I'm certainly willing to
talk to you, but what you suggest can only happen if you are prepared to
believe that we have put our cards on the table when we do." So I
rather resent you saying no one is/was prepared to discuss things with
you :p)
Since you deleted the comments on that page, and it was a long time ago,
I don't really remember what I said. I remember finding it slightly
contradictory that you said a lot about NOT "tooting your own horn" but
then links to this wiki that listed everything you'd ever done seemed to
appear everywhere (especially since you once told me it was just a
private page to remind you what you'd done when you doubted how much you
did). The two facts just didn't sit right, you know? Do one or the
other, I don't really mind, but doing both just confused me. :) Anyway, I
probably was rude, sarcastic and ironic back then: and even if I
wasn't, I fully accept that it certainly seemed that way. So I apologise
for my past rudeness: I'm sorry. Hopefully you can forgive me, and at
least that one thing can be laid to rest now. I'd hate to think that a
few careless comments from me on a wiki years ago was still upsetting
you. :)
2011-06-20 [Artsieladie]:
You never received a reply message from me, because you want me to
accept that Hedda "didn't" put the heart in my badge slot, when I KNOW
FOR A FACT THAT HE DID and so does Hans because he witnessed it with me.
Without going back to quote anything, roughly you said something about
Hedda had done some screen capture thingy to show that he didn't or
something like this. Well, Hedda also made the invite page appear as
though I had never been there, apparently, which even [True, plain and simple]
was fooled into thinking that "I" was lying about inviting someone to
Elftown, but we all know that "I" did invite someone, which I have
proven to be so, now don't we? I was credited at first for doing
so, but after Hans revealed whom he was, my credit for inviting him was
then taken away. ..As anyone can also see that it says still that I've
invited "0" members in my house.
So, so much for Hedda's so called "See!? I didn't put it there!" Well, Hedda IS lying for whatever 'his' reason being is.
As much as it would be just wonderful if I would accept all the blame
for everything and "lie" for Hedda and say that he did not put that
little red heart in my badge slot, it would only make everyone else
involved in this whole mess seem like they are the perfect little angels
and I'm the rogue. Well, this isn't the case. There have been many
mistakes made all the way around and circumvention will never be a
suitable fix it, especially when there has been too much of it already.
So, it was okay if I 'made' a private page displaying what all I've
done, as long as I didn't ever mention it anywhere? Now you have me
confused.
I am willing to put past whatevers behind us, but I won't EVER agree to
say something when I know it isn't true. Hedda put the heart in my badge
slot and he took it out. When he is willing to stand up and admit he
did, then maybe, just maybe, some healing here may begin. There may be a
hell of an explosion if he does! ...though, because Hedda also knows
how that that simple, single little action ties in with a much, much
bigger picture. ....And here lays the problem... This page and what it
reveals, is only just another part of this much bigger picture as well
that no one is meant to ever know or see in its entirety... you, I, or
anyone else.
SilverFire I do wish that this could be rectified. I do wish that you
and I could work on the same side of the track because we both want what
is best for Elftown, even if we do have differing views, but I will
NEVER say that Hedda didn't, when I KNOW he DID! But... I do VERY much
appreciate your apology, probably more than you know. I'm sorry things
have gone sour between you and I, between others and I, but I can't try
to make amends if others aren't willing to make some concessions as
well. The fact that you just apologised is perhaps a start? If so, I
would like this very much.
2011-06-20 [SilverFire]:
I don't think we're ever going to agree about the heart thing, because I
have a very clear memory of putting it there and later removing it,
which is the difference between this instance and whatever happened with
the invite thing: no one else is claiming the blame for that (and no
matter how good someone is at manipulating code, they can't manipulate
my memory :p) I AM claiming the blame for the heart-thing. And I am
doing so because I am an honest person who believes – just like you – in
accepting responsibility for my mistakes (and not those of others).
It's odd that us both acting on the same principle leaves us at such
odds. :P However, I'm still willing to discuss it. What exactly is it
you and Hans saw that convinced you that it was Hedda, and not I, who
edited your badge slot? Obviously, ET doesn't show you who is editing a
house (or, indeed, even that a house is being edited): so what is it
that so convinced you?
So, it was okay if I 'made' a private page displaying what all I've
done, as long as I didn't ever mention it anywhere? Now you have me
confused.
Sure. I don't get what's confusing there, so I'm not really sure how to
clarify, but I'll have a go anyway. :) You once told me that the page
was there for your personal benefit: to remind you at times of all the
things you'd done. Having such a page isn't at all at odds with the idea
that you dislike 'tooting your own horn', and in fact gels with it
rather well. But then the page (to me) seemed to suddenly become public,
and be linked to lots. To me, that's no longer a page to remind you of
what you've done if you ever doubted it, but to 'toot your own horn'. I
don't really mind whether people like to show off what they did or not,
or keep it private, but I find it a bit inconsistent to say one and do
the other. Which is what appeared to be happening from my point of view.
:)
2011-06-20 [Artsieladie]:
Okay, I'll try to explain. It was the day after Valentine's Day. Hans
was at my house, no surprise here. I was on Elftown as I always was and
going here and there, when I noticed I had "a" new guestbook message. I
immediately went to my house, because for some reason, I like to go to
my house to see on my last visitor's list whom has visited my guestbook,
and yes, even though, it no longer works as it used to.
However, when I got to my house, there wasn't a name at the top of my
list that would indicate the guestbook visitor because they didn't click
"add me".
Anyway, I scrolled down to my house's badge slot just to see if someone
had added something or changed my badge slot. Funny thing is, even
though I had a 'new' badge, it wasn't the badge that I noticed first. It
was the "additional" heart, because "my" heart "I" had already put in
there for decoration, was right in the middle, a symmetry thing/issue I
have (which you like things centered as well), but this "new" one was
suddenly there off to the right of it, which threw my entire badge slot
off.
It was then I noticed that I had a 'new' badge, the Inspector's Badge,
and this 'new' little red heart was put "with" the link for the
Inspectors (at that time). So whomever had just brought me the new
badge, ALSO put the heart in when they did.
Naturally, I immediately went to my "one" guestbook message then, and
this is when I saw that it was Hedda that had delivered the 'new' badge,
the Inspector's Badge.
Hans whom had been sitting next to me, sitting on the arm of my big
comfy chair no less, actually drew the same conclusion, only "he" was
none to happy about it. "I" was like: "How neat! Aww, look what Hedda
did! Wasn't that sweet of him?"
Hans, let's just say, developed an instantaneous attitude because Hedda
did this. In fact (and Hans will verify this), Hans retorted with:
"Sure, I give you a special card and flowers and Hedda gives you a
stupid little heart and you act like he just gave you the freaking
world! What the hell is what I gave you then?"
Besides this, it wasn't all that long before this, that I had sent to
Hedda a screen grab of my diary which showed how my badge slot was just a
little before Hedda was in it, and it shows that only the little red heart that "I" had put in there was there, but after Hedda was in my badge slot, the "new" little red heart to the right of it was suddenly there.
You, SilverFire were in my badge slot not too long after Hedda was in it, but the extra little red heart was in there before you had arrived.
This is why, I'm not trying to say you are lying, because if you look at
my guestbook, you'll see the time frame between your visit to my
guestbook and Hedda's on the same day is very close. IF.. I had had
"two" guestbook messages, instead of just the one, when I FIRST went to
my guestbook, it would have been you I would have said such nice things
about to Hans and he wouldn't have gotten a jealous attitude. But.. this
is not the case, because I had just the one GB message and you had not
been to my guestbook yet. Only Hedda had been in my guestbook at that
point and at the same point my badge slot had not only acquired a new
badge, but also, a new, little, red heart.
So I can understand that you 'think' you put it there and no, I'm not
trying to say anything else here like you're stupid or that you don't
remember. I, too, used to do badging, so I know that when you do many,
you don't always remember every single detail in every single badge
slot, especially when you do a lot of them and this isn't meant to say
you have memory lapses either. I'm just trying to say that I do remember
what comes with the territory.
But... Hedda KNOOOOOOOOOOOWS HE PUT THAT HEART IN MY BADGE SLOT, so
do I, so does Hans. Hans is no way going to back down, especially when
he KNOWS that Hedda did this and other stuff as well. Besides, Hedda
made things personal with Hans, when Hedda had no reason to with an
email he sent Hans. Then like this wasn't enough, Hans' email account
"mysteriously" went bye-bye, the very same account that had that email
in it that Hedda had sent to him. None of his other email accounts went
south, just the one with the nasty email in it to Hans about me,
knocking me to Hans. Unfortunately for Hedda however, Hans made copies
of every transaction in and out of that account, but then he would
instinctively, because Hans is an investigator. ..And the fact that he
is an investigator, also places him as a "credible witness" to this, and
so much more.
So why isn't Hedda just admitting about the heart -or- is he afraid
to admit it? ..And if so, why? What repercussions will Hedda have to
face if he does admit to the little heart episode? ..And if he should
admit to it, what will begin to unravel as a result?
Now, about the wiki-page thing... I will admit that I likely did go
overboard with mentioning it and normally I don't really push for credit
for stuff I've done. But to be blatantly honest, I felt that everything
I was doing was being deliberately overlooked, dismissed, or minimised
at best, which I didn't feel was right. It seems that others were always
being told what a wonderful job "they" were doing, but when it came to
me, well, I was made to feel like I was just interfering. Others were
"helping, doing wonderful", but "I" was "interfering". I, too, have
busted my hump for this site, and LOVED doing it mind you, just as
others have contributed, but when I placed what I had done on the Crew
Builders' page, it was suddenly stated the page had to be "cleaned up".
Yes, I did eventually place on the Crew page some of what I had done,
but so did others, but why was mine suddenly seen as so terrible? Was it
because I had so much to put on there? It's not like I hadn't done it,
but yet, I was made to feel like crap because I did display what all
I've done. Just because I had done a lot, it didn't warrant the
treatment that I received. All I wanted was for one of the crew to say
"wow", acknowledge my efforts, but no, I was made to feel like all that I
had done was something awful, something ugly, and then ultimately
labeled as "obsession". Others' efforts are "dedication", but mine is
"obsession". How was I supposed to feel?
Maybe, part of the reason I was feeling this way, too, was because of
what I was being subjected to both on the site and off as well, but no
one here realised this, because not one of the ones that I needed to
listen, would listen, but just kept dismissing everything and then
making fun of me to boot. Does anyone have ANY idea the emotional trauma
this has brought me, being watched every bloody second of every bloody
second I am online? Then trying to get someone, anyone, to listen, to
help me? ...And no one would!? I am damn lucky I do still have my sanity
even though some people here would just love to dispute this and likely
are. All I can say, I hope not one of you that has, ever become
subjected to the unwanted surveillance to the degree that I have been,
because it is HELL to try and deal with and an even bigger HELL to try
and get people to hear you.
2011-06-20 [SilverFire]:
The thing is, I find your badge slot really complicated and scary, and
always worry that I'll mess something up, so I remember it quite
distinctly. I didn't realise that the heart was there by your valentine
stuff, I thought it was a symmetry thing which the new badge had mucked
up, so I added one in. It was also I who removed it later, when I
realised why the original heart was there in the first place. I was
doing several badgery things around that time. One of them was changing
all the 'Masters" links to go to Badgers and Inspectors. Unfortunately,
Hedda didn't (and still doesn't) remember that those links have changed,
so I often check right after he updates the pages to check what link he
has left in the badge slot. If that happens, and I edit the badge slot
to fix the link, I don't usually bother to comment in the GB. With all
due respect, I see nothing in your account which proves that it was
Hedda, and not I. Naturally, I can understand why, given the evidence
you had, you would assume it was Hedda - that's a perfectly reasonable
assumption, but I still remember the 'oh god, how do I edit this?
Symmetry..., tags... argh!' :P So once again we're in the same position:
You can understand why I think what I do, but ultimately you don't
believe me, and vice-versa. I understand why you think as you do, but
ultimately, I don't believe you, either. o.<
As a side note: I've heard rumour that (you think that)your badge slot
is out of date. If you'd like to tell me what it is I'll check and try
and fix things. :)
Re: crew building. I don't suppose you'll believe that was a
coincidence? That you editing the page gave someone a notification of it
and they looked at it and thought 'woah! something needs to be done
about the organisation on this page'? <_< All I see in the past
comments of this page is a discussion about the fact that only half the
crew bother to list stuff, and that one person should be in charge of
tracking what people do and listing it. I don't think anyone minded you
listing what you'd done on crew building (that would be a bit silly,
since it was the entire purpose of the page), it was just the sudden
links to your "private" page, after we'd all got used to the idea that
you didn't like doing stuff like that. :) "Was it because I had so much to put on there? "
That is an entirely silly suggestion, and I'm slightly saddened you
feel other crew members could be quite that petty. Especially since some
of them have even more to list, after all :P
We always notice when other people get thanked and when we don't, but we rarely notice when other people don't
get thanked. Some crew members are really good at remembering to thank
people. Other's aren't. I often don't remember to thank people, and I
know I've not been thanked for a lot of the stuff I do. I've never
assumed it was anything personal.
Actually, several of the crew have been subject to stalking, so yes, I'm sure some of them know very well how you feel. ;)
2011-06-20 [Artsieladie]: "I didn't realise that the heart was there by your valentine stuff, ..."
But this is just it, SilverFire, "my" heart "I" had put in my badge was NOT between my Valentine Painters' and Poets' links originally.
It was in the middle, to the right of St Valentine Poets and to the
left of Donors of Writing, which placed it smack in the middle at that
time as can be seen in the screen grab, which I have already sent as
also can be seen.
After awhile, not immediately, "I" then moved the heart "I" had placed "in the middle" over to the left, which then placed it between
the two Valentine links, because "I did not want to disturb or move,
definitely not 'remove' that wonderful little red heart surprise that
Hedda had delivered to me!" For bloody once, Hedda made me, ME, feel
special, that I did matter after all. But it was like his and my little
secret. I didn't want anyone on the site TO know, because I knew
that because he had done such a nice thing for "me" others would resent
it and I think, if the truth be known, so does he know the same, and
this is why he did it so no one would notice.
So, Hedda KNOWS also that I LOVED that little red heart he delivered
MORE than all my badges put together and so, he also KNEW that by
removing it, it would really hurt me. It was HIS way to get back at me
for telling him that I was going to leave Elftown. ...And he KNEW just
what heart "to remove" and what heart not to, because he KNEW just which
one he had placed there! ..And then when he removed the heart he put in
there, he once again, left my badge slot no longer symmetrical, because
then there was just the one that I had moved over to the left the only
one with his no longer on the right to balance the symmetrical effect
out.
If you are so clear in your mind about putting it there, you would be
able to provide much better details, but you can't provide something you
don't know or have.
Here are some of your claims:
Letter number: 76094459
From: [SilverFire]
To: [Artsieladie] (OMG! My new pc is an AWESOME machine! Luv it! :D)
Sent 2009-05-20 06:44:41 (761 days ago)
"Your puzzle wiki:
I'm really sorry to have caused you such confusion, but it was me. :(
I badged you in February to give you the historian badge, and was
trying to figure out what pattern you were using with the images between
each word, I finally decided it was the heart since that made it
symmetrical, so I put that. Later, when I badged you to give you the
badger badge, I was looking at it again, again trying to figure out what
image to use. A few days later I suddenly realised the valentines one
had a heart because it was valentines (d'uh, how stupid am I?) and that
the correct one should be the leaf angling right, so I changed it. :S
*hides*
Sorry."
Comments:
2009-05-19 [SilverFire]: I'm really sorry to have caused you such confusion, but it was me. :(
I badged you in February to give you the historian badge, and was
trying to figure out what pattern you were using with the images between
each word, I finally decided it was the heart since that made it
symmetrical, so I put that. Later, when I badged you to give you the
badger badge, I was looking at it again, again trying to figure out what
image to use. A few days later I suddenly realised the valentines one
had a heart because it was valentines (d'uh, how stupid am I?) and that
the correct one should be the leaf angling right, so I changed it. :S
*hides*
Sorry.
...and then again...
2009-05-20 [SilverFire]: Reposting, since it got bumped off:
I'm really sorry to have caused you such confusion, but it was me. :(
I badged you in February to give you the historian badge, and was
trying to figure out what pattern you were using with the images between
each word, I finally decided it was the heart since that made it
symmetrical, so I put that. Later, when I badged you to give you the
badger badge, I was looking at it again, again trying to figure out what
image to use. A few days later I suddenly realised the valentines one
had a heart because it was valentines (d'uh, how stupid am I?) and that
the correct one should be the leaf angling right, so I changed it. :S
*hides*
Sorry.
...and another....
2009-12-08 [SilverFire]:
I badged you several times, to give you credit for various different
pieces of work you'd done. I can't remember which exact time it was,
because I badged you several times, but I remember doing it. I thought
the heart should be there to make the badge slot symmetrical. Later, I
realised that the heart was there because it was a Valentine's contest,
and thus that symmetry wasn't your intent, so I removed it. I'm sorry I
can't remember the exact dates I badged you for various things.
------------------------------------------------------------
Well, it's perfectly clear that aren't as clear in your mind as you are
trying to say here. So, isn't it possible that you are mistaken about
placing the heart in my badge slot? It appears with everything gathered
together now.. here... that you really aren't all that clear in your
mind.
But I AM CLEAR! Hans is! ..And so are our memories. So why can't you
consider that both Hans and I are speaking the truth about what we
"witnessed". Who is going to fault you? I'm certainly not going to. As
I've stated before, I'm not insisting on this just to cause 'you' any
kind of grief. I simply WANT the truth and spoken from the person who
DID actually put the heart in my badge slot.
Why is this such a problem anyway? What's the damn big deal about Hedda
putting a little red heart in 'my' badge slot? If I were to guess, I
think Hans might not be the only one with a problem with it. But, eh, it's just a guess!
-------------------------------------------------------------
Letter number: 75714186
From: [Artsie_ladie] (OMG! My new pc is an AWESOME machine! Luv it! :D)
To: [Hedda] (I can edit mood)
Sent 2009-02-15 17:31:56 (854 days ago)
Next in thread: 75714347
"This is a screen cap of a secret diary entry. Are the asterisks supposed to be red and some of the text blue?"
Letter number: 75714347
From: [Hedda] (I can edit mood)
To: [Artsieladie] (OMG! My new pc is an AWESOME machine! Luv it! :D)
Sent 2009-02-15 19:15:30 (854 days ago)
Previous in thread: 75714186
Next in thread: 75714490
"Well, no. The tables were cached and would look the same in all
places regardless if colours where allowed there or now. Worse was that
if the table where the colours don't work would be view first, then your
badge-slot would have gotten its colours broken.
Fixed in the upcoming version! Thanks!"
Letter number: 75714490
From: [Artsie_ladie] (OMG! My new pc is an AWESOME machine! Luv it! :D)
To: [Hedda] (I can edit mood)
Sent 2009-02-15 20:07:00 (854 days ago)
Previous in thread: 75714347
"I see. It happened awhile ago, too, but finding the other example,
well, it would take me a month of Sundays. I really should try to index
my diary entries, so I can find things more easily. :P
You're welcome!"
GB Messages:
1066729
From: Hedda
Sent: 2009-02-15 19:12:17 (854 days ago) Next in thread: 1066752
"Added
Thanks for the nice bugreports!"
My response:
1066752 Written in Hedda's guestbook.
From: Artsieladie
Sent: (854 days ago)
Previous in thread: 1066729 from Hedda to Artsieladie
"Ooh, thankies for the badge! :D You're welcome! :D"
YOUR GB Messages:
1066731
From: SilverFire
Sent: 2009-02-15 19:47:36 (854 days ago) Next in thread: 1066753
"Ur beaver badge, I updates it. You're now a Great Grand Master builder. :3"
My response:
From: Artsieladie
Sent: (854 days ago)
Previous in thread: 1066731 from SilverFire to Artsieladie
"Ooh, thankies for the badge! :D"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My badge slot is way out of date and has been for a very long time. But
as with most everything here, I've pretty much come to the conclusion
that I'm just nothing but a waste here and could care less about
anything that relates to me. But interesting though.. the "rumor"
aspect. Would you care to clarify what you mean exactly about this, umm,
"rumor" thing?
Well, now see, I gotcha' there! I would believe it, because I do tend to
be overly sensitive at times, but maybe it's because I've been kicked
aside so many times in my life period, after what was wanted to
be gotten out of me and then just kicked to the curb afterwards, used
and shit on basically, but I never expected to be here, too. But I also
know, that most everything there is, has even the tiniest grain of
origin or truth, to be closer with the actual saying. So it is very
possible I was and am overly sensitive, but when I add everything else
into the mix, like how I was treated in the forums many times by others,
and too many other instances to list them all here, it also stands to
reason why I would draw such a conclusion as well. It's not the constant
thank you, thank you, thank you, ..... that I'm talking about. It's the
overall general feeling that no matter what I did, it just wouldn't
ever be right or I was always viewed as a person that was "interfering",
NOT helping, but "interfering" was how I was viewed as being, while
others were the real helpers.
I was accused of playing games when I wasn't. I was just trying to state
that what I was doing is what Hedda had asked to be done a number of
times. But... did Hedda admit that I "wasn't" playing games and tell the
person that accused me of such, that I wasn't? That I was simply doing
as he himself had asked to be done several times? No, of course not! HE
BLOODY BANNED ME OVER IT! ...And for doing as HE wanted done! ...And
stripped of my privs and everything else! But... I'm NOT supposed to be
angry or hurt or anything? I was accused of conspiracy with another ET
member, but when I said this and told Hedda where he could find the
proof, which I'm sure he looked and then saw I was right, did he bother
then to apologise either!? Hell no!
Which reminds me, speaking of forums... Why were all of my postings deleted in the what, Assembly forum?
I do feel weird when I feel I have to say things I've done. I'd rather
not actually, but by the same token, I'm not about to be used and then
thrown away like I'm just some sort of piece of crap either. Apparently,
I was feeling this way, and as I've stated, likely in part of my own
thinking because of my sensitivity issues, but also not completely
unfounded either. I'm willing to meet in the middle. Is everyone else?
I don't even go to the My Day forum since I was last attacked there,
which I chose to ignore hoping it would just be the end of it, but nope!
I was then attacked in my GB and so I very seldom go in there any more
either. I only just went in my guestbook now to pull up the messages and
I just saw your message and Linderel's in there. It would suit me just
fine if I had no guestbook at all as a matter of fact. It used to be
something that delighted me to see I had a GB message, but no more. Now
I'm afraid to even go in there for fear what I'll find waiting there for
me. It's pretty much the same with the forums, too.
Do you or anyone here know what it feels like to no matter where I go on
here, I am faced with another slap in my face over and over again?
Every single time I look at my badge slot, it's a bloody slap in my
face. Then when I go to some of my own wiki-pages I've created, I've
been removed as the owner of them, whilst it has NOT been done with
others? I was told that when people mod a contest, they NEED to put the
ownership in their name "so they can edit the page" more easily. Well,
I've been watching and I see now that the pages were taken out of my
name and placed into Hedda's name, this no longer seems to be a dilemma.
So the problem was just with "my name" being on as the owner? It's a
fair question. I even have found some of my own PRIVATE pages that I
have been denied access to. Does anyone care to explain this? Other
Council members have been retired, but they weren't stripped of their
privs or kicked out of the forums, but I was, for doing nothing wrong
mind you. That's alright... I'm just supposed to shrug it off like it's
not supposed to matter. Who the hell cares that I've been treated like I
have been. But... I do have Hedda's addressing of the crew and how "he"
instigated the crew to take over MY contest and ALL the other lovely
things he said. I realise, kicking me out of the forums was necessary so
I wouldn't see all that was said about me afterward. Hell, Hedda
couldn't wait to steal my contest, the very one he reamed me out a new
butt hole over. NOT THE CREW... Hedda did it all by himself! After I had
just sent him $175.00 for Christmas, too! So I was "doubly" rewarded,
and then triply! Should I start feeling lucky or something like this
yet? Would anyone else?
The only one that mentioned to me that she had been stalked in 'real life' of the crew is [ Chimes].
I am NOT talking about stalking on here. I'm talking about being
stalked all over the Internet, having your computer invaded, not only
your privacy compromised, but everyone's that corresponds with you as
well, having your online accounts messed with, being tracked everywhere
you go, everything you do, every damn key stroke logged so it's fed to
someone's else's computer, etc.. Since you now have the ability to read
everyone's private messages on here, may I suggest you read this: [ 76831526@] and all those connected to it, particularly [ 76830795@] and also this one where Hedda threatens me as well: [ 76676213@].
The crew has been after me to put forth what I have and then when I
finally began to start bringing it out, Hedda threatened me and told me
that if I told my side of the story, then he would then permanently ban
me, which means in layman's terms that he would then permanently defile
"my" name, "my" art, etc. ALL across the Internet and not for breaking
any rules or for doing anything wrong, but simply for what it boils down
to, is "defending myself" and telling things from "my perspective",
which now must be a valid reason to ban someone.. trying to get to the
real truth is wrong? People here on Elftown don't have a clue as to what
I've REALLY been subjected to. So this way it looks like it's all me.
Then if I dare say anything, then I'm just being some drama queen. But
if I tell my side to the story, I am threatened if I do!? So others can
state their side, but I can't?
Hedda states, why don't I just ask him about things I didn't
understand... So, I did and all he did was bloody circumvent with more
insults. When I gave him the run-down on what had transpired in regards
to the Kaspersky warning about the Trojan, did "he" apologise, and say
that "he" was mistaken? Hell no! But... yet, he expected "me" to admit
that I was, when I wasn't. It was Kaspersky that had made the error. But
also, as soon as I became aware of this fact, I ALSO made damn sure
that "I" didn't leave things as they were. I also then made sure that it
was known that Kaspersky had made the error. Did Hedda thank me for
this? Hell no! He was so damn quick to jump down my throat before "he"
had all the facts, which meant that "he" was guilty of making
"assumptions" of his own as well? But at least, I did everything in my
power to set things right as was the right thing to do, but does he, did
he? No, he does not and did not. HE KNOWS THE TRUTH! But yet he won't
spill it, because he'd much rather see me fry than to stand up and do
the right thing, because I think he's afraid what will happen if he
does.
Then to have it very recently stated that he was telling another person
what he was retrieving from invading my privacy and this person, in turn
then condoned it, by listening and eating it up!? How sweet! Well, this
person listening and lapping it all up, is about as bad as the one
invading my privacy! 'Course, in so doing Hedda was sold up the river.
Ze cat was let out of ze bag! "Meow!"
Has anyone stopped to think that different seeds are planted in
different places for a reason? If I plant apple seeds, grape seeds, and
tomato seeds and all in different places and then the apple seedlings
pop up and the tomato vines begin to grow, but no grape vines sprout at
all, well, I guess then I know what environments are the nurturing
environments and which one wasn't, now don't I? This may sound horrible
but to catch a rat, you have to first "bait" the traps and then "set"
them and then watch and wait, and see which one is or ones are sprung.
Since no one here that I'm aware of was willing to help me, I had no
other recourse than to pursue this long, painful, and arduous task on my
own. So this is what I did. One by one by one, I found out the hard way
that they could not be trusted. Painful to think friends are your
friends, only to find out they aren't, that they are just "phishing" for
information while pretending to "be" your friend? You betcha'! But all
the same, I HAD to know WHOM I could trust, and WHOM I could not. If I
lost any in the process of my seeking the truth? Well, I guess, they
weren't ever really my friends in the first place then, were they? I
would never remain friends with anyone that would sell me up the river
by the way.
It seems to be perfectly alright for others to talk badly about me, make
fun of me, etc., but if I should say anything even remotely out of
line, then I'm this awful bad person that no one should have anything to
do with. I'm not saying that I haven't said some things that I
shouldn't have, because I have and I very much regret, but so have
several others, including one in particular who is always crying foul.
She's forgotten about a statement she said back in 2007, which was
BEFORE the shit hit the fan even. I only wish I had known about it in
2007: "I don't care how she is gotten rid of, just as long as she is.
She is not taking my place! What does Hedda see in her anyway?"
So this is NOT alllll me as everyone is supposed to believe. I have
never had any desire to take ANYONE'S place nor do I want or aspire to
BE someone else. Never have either. Never will! But back in 2007 I was
wanted out of here, gone? So there's been something festering around
here even before I was ever even aware of or even suspicious of. 'Course
2007 was the year that my privacy invasion begun as well, but of course
I didn't start putting two and two together until the beginning of
2008, which is when I addressed Hedda as I've previously stated. So four
years of trying to convince Hedda to get rid of me? 2011 minus 4 =
2007. Simple math. ..And four years of hell.
But yet... this whole mess is ALL me, ALL "my" doing. Right.
--
---
-
---
-
--
2011-06-20 [SilverFire]: I'm sorry, I'm sort of skim-reading at the moment. I've had a long day already and that's a very long comment. :P
No, am not clear in my mind about precisely what badge I was giving you,
what time it was, or even what day it was. It was years ago! Of course I
don't remember it like it was yesterday, nor do I claim to. I forget
more details each time. For instance, I had forgotten all about the
leaves and the fact that some angled left and some right. Probably
because the leaves didn't cause such a fuss. :P This I am more than
prepared to admit. What I AM clear about in my mind is the memory of 'oh
ferk, how do I make all this right in terms of decorations?' Even
clearer was the memory of editing your badgeslot later to give you the
veteran historian badge and going 'Oh! The little red heart was supposed
to represent the VALENTINE THING! Opps, I mussed it up. Odd that she
hasn't fixed it, but I guess maybe somehow she didn't notice it... I'll
just go fix it now then, before she notices <_<' The very clearest
part is how odd I found it that someone as diligent as yourself hadn't
fixed it yet.
Clearly you did notice, and moved the first heart over to make it symmetrical again, and in deleting it I just double-whammied the fuck-up I'd made in the first place, by ruining your badge slot once again. Gooo Silvie!
"So why can't you consider that both Hans and I are speaking the truth about what we "witnessed""
I do. I don't actually doubt it. I just don't see how that proves beyond
all reasonable doubt that it was Hedda who added the heart. :)
The Rumour thing: Mort mentioned on a wiki somewhere that you thought it
was out of date, I don't always trust what he says, so I didn't know
how much to trust that. That's all, nothing suspicious. :P
I've just offered to fix your badge slot. I'm sure I've seen Cali offer
in the past before, So you know perfectly well that some of us are
prepared to do that, and I'm rather frustrated because you saying it's
out of date means that our record keeping has gone wrong somewhere.
Please tell me what's wrong with it - for Elftown's Records' sake! Of
course, not knowing what's wrong with it makes me worry that other
peoples' badge slots are wrong too. >_<
"I was told that when people mod a contest, they NEED to put the
ownership in their name "so they can edit the page" more easily."
That needs to be done if one of the mods doesn't have wiki-privs (and
who has those privs changes pretty often, of course). They need to be
able to password protect the page at the end, and they can only do that
then if they're the owner. Past contests were placed in Hedda's name
when Sunrose removed her ownership of them, because he's least likely to
leave crew. :P Future contests pages were also placed in his name just
for ease, to be redistributed to whoever the mod will be.
"Since you now have the ability to read everyone's private messages on here, may I suggest you read this:"
You may, but I won't. I don't care if you give me permission (I'm
assuming that it's a message between you and someone, so that you do
indeed have the right to give me permission to read it, as it were),
that's not what that priv is for, and I refuse to use it as such. I hate
having to use it at all, so I certainly won't use it any more than I
absolutely have to.
Which reminds me, speaking of forums... Why were all of my postings deleted in the what, Assembly forum?
I have absolutely no knowledge of this. The crew don't really use that
forum any more. I just checked Crew-Assembly and found 1 post from you,
and I'm sure you made more than that. :/ Odd indeed.
I even have found some of my own PRIVATE pages that I have been denied access to.
No idea about this, and I can't even attempt to find out what the
problem was without more info. :/ Could it possibly be that you
protected them to a forum you think got removed from? That's the only
other time I've seen someone unable to access their own page. If you let
me know what the pages are I can check if that's the problem, and
de-forumise them if it is.
Other Council members have been retired, but they weren't stripped of their privs or kicked out of the forums,
Actually, most of them have now, because I'm an evil fascist like that. >=3
"including one in particular who is always crying foul." I have no idea
who you're talking about, or what, actually, so with all due respect I'm
going to stop reading at this point because there's no way I can
possibly make an informed comment on the matter. :)
2011-06-20 [SilverFire]:
Oh! Re assembly forum: You're posts aren't all gone! :3 I just decided
to investigate a little more, and found them all still there. They just
don't show up in the search function :/ (which isn't a great search
function, and I frequently have trouble with it not showing posts that I
KNOW are there).
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]: Oh my mistake. Wrong forum. It was the Crew-Assembly forum that "according to Hedda" I was supposedly "left" in:
...But I guessed he lied about this too! What else is new!? Just as you
can also see, that he also lied about Elf12 AS WELL! It does seem that
he does a whole lot of fibbing, now doesn't he?
On to the issues about changing ownership thingy...
The Valentine's Competition, 2011:
I think this combo of screengrabs says it all, don't you?
I put the Valentine Photography Competition together, but yet I was
"removed" as the owner. Charybdis put the art and poetry parts together,
but "she" was NOT removed as the owner.
As for what you just said that the mods had to put the pages in their
names so they could password protect or whatever? Well, I guess these
screen grabs disprove what you just said then, don't they?
"including one in particular who is always crying foul." I have no
idea who you're talking about, or what, actually, so with all due
respect I'm going to stop reading at this point because there's no way I
can possibly make an informed comment on the matter. :)"
I understand totally what you are saying and actually I respect what you
just said, but if "I" state the person's name, then once again, I will
be accused of talking badly of her.
So.... what are your thoughts about "this" particular page and all that
goes with it, SilverFire? It's as plain as day that its contents and
what goes with it points to ONE person AND ONE person only. But... "he"
knows nothing about this? Oooops! Is Hedda telling yet another fiberoo?
For shame! ;P
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]:
I thought you *were* in the Crew-Assembly forum for a while after that,
I thought I remembered seeing you on the member list. I saw at one
point that you weren't in there any more, but I assumed you'd left
yourself. If you didn't, do you not have a message about who kicked you
out, and when?
Well, not entirely. With future contests we sometimes get there and
discover that the mods have wiki-privs, so it's fine. I changed the
page-owners in advance because, to be frank, I presumed you had claimed a
load of official pages to be antagonistic: you weren't crew then, this
wasn't your job. I assumed you wanted to kick up a fuss when the time
came to open the contest and we discovered we needed to change some of
them then. But then, I was operating under the notion that you were the
same person who once took a page I owned and made yourself the owner,
and made a wiki about me slating me as someone trampling all over the
will of ET's users: in short, as someone very antagonistic. So I stand
by what I did there, because to me, that was 'damage control'. I
acknowledge that I may have completely misunderstood your intentions,
but I don't think my assumptions were entirely without provocation.
<_< Now, whilst I can still find you antagonistic at times, (no
offence :p) I don't operate under the assumption that that's your aim.
Since then we've also written strict guidelines about things like that,
so that stuff like that doesn't happen again - to you, or me, or anyone
else.
Don't ignore the badge-y stuff! :) Let me know what you think is wrong so it can be fixed. :3
I actually don't fully understand the argument on the page, yet (I know
nothing of AOL and remember very little of dial-up). I'll read it again
tomorrow, when I'm less tired. (But I'm tempted to be mean and refuse to
comment until you tell me what's wrong with your badge slot >=3)
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
One more thing... the pages don't need to be password protected when
they are set at "editable by the Crew-Assembly forum" which they were
done this way in the past. So why all of a sudden does a page need
password protection instead? Just being set at editable by a particular
forum, which crew all belong to, cancels the need to password protect.
It worked out this way just fine when I was editing pages that didn't
belong to me as long as I belonged to the forum that was selected to be
"editable by".
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
I will plan to look and see. Hedda kicked me out of forums, but to be
quite honest? This whole damn thing hurt me so much, I wouldn't open
them and I left them sitting there... still. I'm so tired of being
slapped in the face! So damned tired!
"I presumed you had claimed a load of official pages to be
antagonistic, and wanted to kick up a fuss when the time came to open
the contest and we discovered we needed to change some of them then."
You see? This is how this automatic assumption is so damn wrong! I had
the pages that I made already done up in my word pad. I wasn't just
going to waste the time I had spent, so I put the info on their rightful
pages. It's just the same thing with the Dreamers' Contest. It was
assumed that I would have just gone against everything I have done for
and to promote this site. I wouldn't have cared if the crew had wanted
to run that contest either, but when I found out that I was removed as
the owner like I had never done a thing with it, when it was ALL MY
WORK, I was bloody pissed and I had every right to be. Dammit! That
contest was deliberately STOLEN from ME! Then to get told by another
crew member that I "didn't build that contest", well, that just had me
fuming. Hedda filleted me ROYALLY about MY contest, but then behind MY
back when I could not defend what was rightfully mine, he instigated the
taking it over. If a regular member had done what was done to me, well,
I think we both know what would have happened to them.
May I refresh your memory then? It was you that knew that I was making
up the polls for an ECM session, but even though you knew this, you went
right ahead and made an art one up anyway, then pretended you didn't
know. So if I was defending my work, why wouldn't it seem like I would?
But because I was upset that you went right on ahead and made a poll you
knew I was already doing, this makes "me" antagonistic?
I will let you know about my badge slot, when I get to it. I hate the damn thing to be honest.
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]: Here's an interesting page, but it is password protected: Addressing_The_Crew.
Actually, I have noticed how certain "topics" on pages that I am working
on, but NOT keywording, are popping up strangely coincidental-like and several times. I'll have to ask Mort for the link.
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]:
If the page isn't already linked to a crew forum then only the owner
can do that unless you have wiki-privs. I tend to use 'password protect'
rather confusingly to just mean 'protect', but the principle is the
same - you still need wiki privs to protect in any way a page you don't
own.
You see? This is how this automatic assumption is so damn wrong!
Yes, I did acknowledge that, but also pointed out I had reasons for believing as I did. :)
I believe what the other crew member was trying to point out when they
said you "didn't build it" was that a lot of contest-buildi
ng is very simple, because so much of it is templated. Which *is* true.
"but even though you knew this, you went right ahead and made an art one up anyway, then pretended you didn't know."
I consider this incredibly ironic, since you're prescribing to me
exactly the antagonistic motives I prescribed to you. So this is where I
say 'This is how this automatic assumption is so damn wrong!' right? :P
I thought you were busy. I was trying to be helpful. I would also like
to point out that this is proof that you're not the only one who was
ever accused of treading on people's toes when they were just trying to
help. ;)
I read a bit of the wiki, but with all due respect, I stopped after the
old Sunrose thing. She explained multiple times now, I think, that she
ended her relation with you after finding out you were saying stuff to
other people about her. The fact that you're prepared to ignore this,
and attribute her actions to some random event in your day is what makes us doubt many of your other "coincidences".
^^; Because this one WAS a coincidence. :) I could make tonnes of
coincidences like that - almost daily: X comes online just as I'm doing
y, z goes offline just as I'm doing w. For three days in a row, G and H
signed in simultaneously on my msn, T's phone only ever starts playing
up at the times where I most need to contact them (but then, y'know, I
did accidentally stick it through the washing machine, so... <_<).
The fact that you ignore other people's explanation for such things
also, in my eyes, can make your account of things seem a lot less
reasonable: you've ascribed certain motivations to people (just as you
did to me, and I did to you, in being antagonistic) but you're not
prepared to change those ascribed motivations even when the people
involved try and explain. :( I don't understand why the assumed
motivations you've ascribed people are more reliable than their accounts
of what they did. It just makes it look like you don't want to believe
any of us about our own actions, which in turn, can make attempting to
discuss it seem useless. ._.
Actually, I have noticed how certain "topics" on pages that I am
working on, but NOT keywording, are popping up strangely coincidental-like and several times. I'll have to ask Mort for the link?
I also have no idea what that is about, and I don't really care for
half-explained things like that. Say it clearly, or not at all, damnnit!
:P
But that does remind me that you said you were having trouble with being
able to access some of your wikis, and my offer to help with that still
stands. :)
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
When I set up official pages, I set them at "editable by Crew-Assembly"
or "Crew". For poll pages especially, that both needed to be able to
access, the setting was for Crew-Assembly. ..And there wasn't any
problem then that I remember of anyone in the crew having with editing pages.
Well, just because something doesn't appear to you as something does to
me, doesn't make my perception not reasonable nor does it make yours
necessarily erroneous either. But two people can have two different
perceptions AND both can have valid reasons for these perceptions. But
continually pointing out to me how wrong I am, while no one else is,
makes me look like the moron and others aren't. Differing opinions and
perceptions do not make all those that oppose morons and all those in
favour as the smart people or the right people.
I do find it hard to believe that someone as observant as yourself, but
yet you didn't "see" a comment by myself saying that I was creating the
polls "just above" your own? It's somehow just a little bit hard to
swallow. Come on! You didn't repeatedly antagonise me to keep arguing
with you on the ECM Conference page, now did you? How about the time you
kept deleting "my" comments repeatedly on a page? Do you remember this?
My daughter certainly does. How about when you were "editing one of MY
graphics' pages"?
So, if this is going to be all about every thing I bring up, you
continually pointing out that "I" was wrong every damn time, while every
one else has a viable excuse? Well, then we might as well call it quits
here and now, because I am willing to see where "I" have made
some mistakes, but so have you, and so have other people, including
Sunrose, but she, especially, always seems to come out smelling like a
rose... no pun intended. I am sorry how things went sour, but I'll be
damned if I'm going to be made out here to look like yet, again, like a
schmuck, while everyone else appears as though they made 'no' mistakes.
It ain't happening.
I'm just a little tired of everything I say that it was just some
"convenient coincidence" and so it gets shrugged off and I'm made to
look like the idiot. Well, I'm not an idiot. When someone ends a
relationship WITHIN MINUTES, not hours or days, but MINUTES after I was
given a compliment, it's just a little too hard to swallow also, that it
was just some 'freaking coincidence'. ..And especially when I was given
a compliment in regards to something that that person had told the
person giving me the compliment "to shove it up his ass". ..And
especially when she tried to convince me to not try to please him, to
not agree with him, and to walk away from the project. So yeah, that
"coincidence" excuse? It is a little much to just willingly accept.
Well, I have noticed that it seemed a bit peculiar how I would be
writing about something, and then there, the same topic or idea was
being talked about somewhere. Without going back through all I've been
doing and then locating each and every comment or whatever that just
seemed to come up, I did generalise it. Oh my, what? I didn't screen
grab everything? I must be slipping!
But forget it. Once again I can also see certain topics are responded to
while others are not as well. Just as before, selective replies to only
those where I can be made out to look like I'm the unreasonable idiot.
Forget it, because I can see this heading in the same ol' direction,
with the same ol' pattern, as it has in the past. The crew people (a
general term here, because there are several crew people I liked and do
like that did not give me any grief) are perfect people whom never make
ANY errors, and anyone else that says anything about some of the stuff
they've done, well, these individuals are all schmucks, because the crew
sticks together and up for one another (again GENERAL term here, not
specifically targeting) even when it is known that one has done
something they should not have done. Doctors all stick together; lawyers
all sleep together; and the Elftown Crew do as well. Any glimmer of
hope I had about working things out are once again, all shot to hell.
..And Hedda just sits back and gets away with everything and so does
Sunrose and so does everyone else that has been a part of this
witch-hunt at my expense. So fuck it! There are other ways to handle my
issues that won't include me bowing down to another or others whom seem
to think they are above me and/or every other regular member here. I
will bow down before NO human being nor will I grovel or repeatedly make
concessions or apologies, while others don't have to do any of this at
all, when they have certainly made mistakes as well. Oh, so don't bother
blaming me in the future if anything transpires because I refused to
grovel.
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
I just want to add and reiterate that when I use the word "Crew" I use
it loosely, because people like Nioniel, Akane, Paz, Ramirez, and some
others are sincere people, good people, and I do not include these in
the word "Crew" even though they are or were, because they've done
nothing that I know of to present themselves like they are better than
every one else. I just want to be sure that people know not all crew
"fit the general consensus".
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]: You didn't repeatedly antagonise me to keep arguing with you on the ECM Conference page, now did you?
No, and that's just silly. :P I argued with you because I disagreed with
you. I have absolutely no interest in argument for the sake of it. I
guess the fact that you kept responding was just you trying to
antagonise me, right? X)
How about the time you kept deleting "my" comments repeatedly on a page? Do you remember this?
Yeah, I do. I thought that was again because YOU were trying to
antagonise me! X) We'd just had an entire discussion where we'd agreed
to only respond to questions on the pages we were modding, and there you
were, flagrantly ignoring that. Do you expect ME to believe that YOU
forgot that? ;)
I do find it hard to believe that someone as observant as yourself,
but yet you didn't "see" a comment by myself saying that I was creating
the polls "just above" your own?
As flattering as that is, I have no idea why you would think I'm
particularly observant. :P I'm often not, and my memory for most things
isn't great either. You made a comment saying you were doing them, but
then nothing happened. I assumed you were inundated with work (because I
knew how much you were doing). I tried to help. I have accepted that
you weren't trying to be antagonistic, even though I felt you were. Is
it that hard for you to accept the same of me? :)
So, if this is going to be all about every thing I bring up, you
continually pointing out that "I" was wrong every damn time, while every
one else has a viable excuse?
Well, I'm going to point out the things I think you're wrong about,
'cause that's what happens in a discussion. But I think anyone reading
this discussion can clearly see that I'm not telling you you're wrong
about absolutely everything. ;)
because I am willing to see where "I" have made some mistakes, but so have you.
And I'm also willing to acknowledge those mistakes. As can be seen
frequently in my previous comments. :P C'mon, give me *some* credit,
please (no pun intended). :P
I'm going to be made out here to look like yet, again, like a schmuck,
I'm not trying to make you out to be a schmuck, and I'm sorry if that's the impression you've got.
So yeah, that "coincidence" excuse? It is a little much to just willingly accept.
See, to me, that "excuse" seems perfectly plausible. But then, I'm an
Ockham's razor kinda' girl. And I've seen too many people fall out over
things they thought MUST have been done purposely which turned out in
the end to actually just be coincidences.
Well, I have noticed that it seemed a bit peculiar how I would be
writing about something, and then there, the same topic or idea was
being talked about somewhere. Without going back through all I've been
doing and then locating each and every comment or whatever that just
seemed to come up, I did generalise it. On my, what? I didn't screen
grab everything? I must be slipping!
I still have absolutely no idea what this part is about. <_<;
But forget it. Once again I can also see certain topics are responded to while others are not as well.
You're doing exactly the same. :P But these comments are so long it's
difficult to respond to everything. I'm trying to pick out the parts I
feel I can shed light on, explain, or do something about. If I can't
contribute usefully, I'm leaving it be. If there are certain things you
feel I'm deliberately ignoring and WOULD like me to address, then feel
free to mention those specifically. The things I would specifically like
to see addressed are the issue of your badge slot and the wikis you
can't access. :)
Forget it, because I can see this heading in the same ol' direction, with the same ol' pattern, as it has in the past.
I'm happy to drop this, but I would like it to be noted that I did indeed make an effort to discuss this with you. :)
The crew people (a general term here, because there are several crew
people I liked and do like that did not give me any grief) are perfect
people whom never make ANY errors, and anyone else that says anything
about some of the stuff they've done, well, these individuals are all
schmucks, because the crew sticks together and up for one another (again
GENERAL term here, not specifically targeting) even when it is known
that one has done something they should not have done.
I don't feel this is true. But I guess I'm just saying that because
you're dissing the crew, and therefore it's my job to make you out to be
a schmuck, right? :P When people say we ALWAYS stick up for each other,
and just diss anyone who criticises us, it suddenly means that we can't
ever defend ourselves, because we're *obviously* just doing it because,
y'know - that's what we do. Defend each other no matter how wrong
someone was. >_< Several of the crew can tell you how many times
I've told them off for something they've done, for how they've addressed
someone, and for similar such things. Sometimes even in public. :o So
we definitely don't always defend each other, no matter what.
There are other ways to handle my issues that won't include me bowing
down to another or others whom seem to think they are above me and/or
every other regular member here.
I don't think any of us want you (or anyone else) bowing down to us, and
I don't think any of us think we're better than everyone else, either.
:)
Oh, so don't bother blaming me in the future if anything transpires because I refused to gravel.
I try not to play blame games. :3
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
No! That is NOT true. I told you that we should just agree to disagree
and leave it at that, But it was YOU that kept saying things like, oh I
was ignoring you, I was being childish, because I would not continue to
argue with you.
Right, so I was disallowed to even say anything to anyone on the page? Oh please!
Again, please. You'll never admit that you have tried several times to bug me. So skip it!
Well, when there are way too many "seemingly" coincidences, at what
point do these "seemingly" coincidences become no longer coincidences?
There was more than one poll I was putting together and there was a lot
of information that had to be gathered and reviewed as well, and you
know this. Did you ever once to "ask me" if things were going along
okay? No, you just assumed that it wasn't getting done. Even so, if you
thought they weren't, wouldn't this preempt you to perhaps then read
"over" the comments to see if YOU may have missed something? No! 'Course
not!
Well, forget it. It's not important.
No you aren't telling me I'm wrong with everything, but with most everything that YOU are choosing to take any further.
I did point out that NOT the whole crew fit the description, didn't I?
It's pointless.
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]:
I'm happy to admit what I did. I'm happy to apologise for it. What I
will never do - just like yourself - is admit to things I did not do. I
will not apologise for things I did not do. I already accepted and
apologised for bugging/being rude to you on your community wiki, so
saying I'll never admit it just isn't true - I did! :). But I didn't TRY
to bug you about ECM stuff. I tried to discuss stuff with you. I tried
to reach a resolution (even if you sometimes just wanted to drop it). In
the end, I quit the ECM because I felt that no matter what I tried to
do, I was doing more harm than good - you and I simply couldn't get
along: we disagreed too strongly, about too much. If I was just trying
to antagonise you, why would I have done that? :)
Right, so I was disallowed to even say anything to anyone on the page? Oh please!
I never said that. But you were answering questions directed towards the
mod, which was the exact thing we'd just discussed and agreed not to
do.
Well, when there are way too many "seemingly" coincidences, at what
point do these "seemingly" coincidences become no longer coincidences?
There's probably not a definite point. :P But one must always accept
that even if most of the coincidences turn out NOT to be coincidences,
some of them probably ARE. :)
There was more than one poll I was putting together and there was a
lot of information that had to be gathered and reviewed as well, and you
know this. Did you ever once to "ask me" if things were going along
okay? No, you just assumed that it wasn't getting done. Even so, if you
thought they weren't, wouldn't this preempt you to perhaps then read
"over" the comments to see if YOU may have missed something? No! 'Course
not!
No, it wouldn't prompt me to read over the comments. X_x I just...
didn't think like that. Sorry. :( I thought 'Oh, she said she was going
to do this, but she hasn't... she must be busy doing other stuff. I'll
be helpful and do this one small task for her." I don't understand why
you seem determined to think the worst of me about this. :( But all I
can do is apologise and hope that eventually you'll believe me.
No you aren't telling me I'm wrong with everything, but with most everything that YOU are choosing to take any further.
And you're telling ME I'm wrong about it too! X) This is hardly
one-sided. :P And it would be a pretty weird discussion if we just
agreed with each other on everything. :PI would also like to point out
that I tried to explain why I was choosing to comment on certain things
and not others, and that you were more than welcome to point me in the
direction of other things you thought I should answer. :)
I did point out that NOT the whole crew fit the description, didn't I?
yes, you absolutely did. But I would like to think that now it doesn't describe anyone in the crew. :)
It's pointless.
I'm sorry you feel that way, and I'm sorry that you seem to be
frustrated with this conversation right now (and I'm sorry if that
assumption is wrong, too :P). I'm honestly just trying to be helpful.
._.;
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]: Alright so I'm acting a bit oversensitive again. I'm quite guilty of this, I do admit this and I have.
I was replying to my friend on that wiki, Grandamelf.
I see the whole project has been placed in hold. That's sad.
Actually, this whole site has become rather sad. It is no longer much
fun as it used to be; no longer bustling as it used to be; it is just
nothing of what it used to be.
Instead of pointing out that I'm so ridiculous with my conclusions,
perhaps, you could try to at least understand that I have some valid
reasons for feeling the way I do?
I really would like to be friends with you. There's a lot about you that
I find admirable, believe it or not, but it's just so damn hard to ever
get to the point of just being able to say this, because there seems to
be all this other stuff in the darn way. I donated in your name because
I thought then that you deserved to have some recognition for all your
efforts. I think that everyone deserves recognition for their efforts. I
didn't regret it then and I still don't. In fact, I don't regret
donating for anyone that I have nor do I regret doing whatever I could
for this site period. I have so believed in Elftown and I still do, but
with all the hurt I've had to endure here, it just keeps getting more
difficult to feel it anymore.
..And there's this issue with Hedda and all the hurt he has flung at me
deliberately. Perhaps, I was more right than I even realised when I
emailed him because I had simply had enough. Being accused of conspiracy
with another Elftown member; being told that my Eyecatching Artworks
was just a ploy to take away from Featured Art; being accused of playing
games when all I was doing was placing the title at the top of the
pages as Hedda had asked several times to be done (which he even then
went and stated that the titles were to be on the tops of the pages on
MC, BUT did he say I was only doing as he wanted? No, of course not! I
was banned for doing wrong! NOTHING!); when I was just trying to do
things so they were getting done, so no one would get faulted for them
not being done.. trying to make sure all the bases were covered, I was
told that I was interfering; when Hedda had agreed about featuring the
Elf in the next session, but then went and made a public statement that
"I" was mistaken; ...I could go on and on. But it's useless, because you
and others think that I shouldn't feel hurt or singled out in any way,
but I should just get over all of it like it's nothing. Well, it's not
just nothing, but because I am the one that was hurt so much in all of
this, it's easy for others to think I should just get over this. But if
they were I that were in my shoes, I'm sure they would be a whole lot
more understanding.
Then the fact that he humiliated me on Elf12 the way he did as well, but
I don't see anyone seeing anything wrong in what he has done to me
either. He has threatened me several times. ..And I know he put that
heart in my slot! He KNOWS this, but he doesn't have the guts to say so.
Sorry! But he certainly has the balls to chew me out and be nasty with
me every damn opportunity he can.
By the way, he banned me on someone's birthday? Is this just a
coincidence too? Just asking because I don't want to make the wrong
assumption or anything.
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]: It is no longer much fun as it used to be; no longer bustling as it used to be; it is just nothing of what it used to be.
I agree. We're trying to fix that (albeit too slowly for my taste <_<) but suggestions are always welcome. ._.;;
Instead of pointing out that I'm so ridiculous with my conclusions,
perhaps, you could try to at least understand that I have some valid
reasons for feeling the way I do?
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to seem to be saying your conclusions were
ridiculous. I did acknowledge with some things that though I disagree
with you, I can perfectly understand WHY you reached the conclusions
that you did.
I shouldn't feel hurt or singled out in any way, but I should just get over all of it like it's nothing
I don't think I ever said you had no right to feel hurt. I do think
"getting over it" is important, but I understand that that's not
something people can just snap their fingers and do, especially when
they feel they've been wronged and received no apology. This is one of
the reasons I've tried to apologise for the things I have done that
might have upset you, hurt you, or made you feel singled out.
Then the fact that he humiliated me on Elf12 the way he did as well...
I don't know anything about Elf12 or what goes/went on there, so I can't comment on this bit.
By the way, he banned me on someone's birthday? Is this just a
coincidence too? Just asking because I don't want to make the wrong
assumption or anything.
Eeeerk. This is one of those cases of me not being that observant.
o.< I have no idea when anyone's birthday is, and dates just don't
stick in my head. But I think when he banned you (and of course, I can't
actually speak for Hedda, so this is just my perspective) was to do
with the fact that he felt you were going to destroy a lot of your work
on ET, based on something you'd said. Was it a coincidence that you made
that comment on/just before someone's birthday? X_x
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]: Here's just one example of what I have had to endure:
"Enjoy what's left of your miserable existence you lonely, overbearing, self serving, self centered woman. Your mother would weep to see what you have become."
I lost my Mom in January of 2007, whom I adored to no end! She was such a
source of strength, courage, and so much more to me. She believed in me
like no one else. But this person knew how difficult the loss was for
me, but yet, this is is just one of the low blows I've had to swallow
when she was clearly in the wrong and she knew it, but just another one
that thinks it is all I and not them. She couldn't understand why I
wasn't simply all over losing my mother in just a couple months or so
and even told me that I needed to seek help because I wasn't. She also
condemned me for having principles, because I said that once I have
given my word that what is discussed between another and myself, it then
goes no further. Which means... it GOES NO further, not to my sister,
my daughter, Hans, or anyone else. It is my word that I have given. She
then told me that I should place what the Council wanted of me "above"
my word. I do not nor will I ever agree with this. When a person trusts
me to keep something between just them and I, it is then 'my'
responsibility to uphold what I agreed to. Besides, I never thought that
my first priority here was 'to' the Council. My first priority here was
to this "community". The Council is made up of a few select individuals
all selected by a select few, none of which are chosen by the community
to represent the community.
What she said here couldn't be farther from the truth. I am not
self-centered nor self serving, and people that know me know this to be
true. I give of myself even when I don't know if I have any more to
give. I have spent most of my life doing FOR others: animals, people in
general, homeless, children... schools, rescue groups, youth groups, art
guilds, volunteered in many ways, my time, my music playing, my art, my
money. I have taken in to my home over 500 animals, vetted them, fed
them, nursed them back to health, saved their lives from abuse, neglect,
deplorable conditions, etc.. So she knew NOT what she spoke of, but yet
this wasn't supposed to hurt?
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]: I'm... not sure what I can say now. ._.;; Yeah, that seems like a nasty thing to say, and a low-blow.
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
By the way and just for the record... My mother is proud of who I am
and whom I have become. No, I'm not perfect, faaaar from it, but my
heart is waaaaaaay bigger than I am, but then... hmmm... I'm not a very
big person.. maybe 110 pounds soaking wet. lol
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]: Okay, I'm going to catch up now... ;)
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
I would love to give things one hell of a try to get some life back
into this site for sure! This site really needs some serious promoting
to bring in more people and then get them interested enough to stay and
so many others that have given up on Elftown and left to be brought
back. Kinda' like welcome the new, embrace the old?
I have many ideas going on and in the works that I would love, yes LOVE
to share with you and others and get some added input and ideas and help
with, but I'm afraid to bring them out in the open. ;_;
"I'm sorry, I didn't mean to seem to be saying your conclusions were
ridiculous. I did acknowledge with some things that though I disagree
with you, I can perfectly understand WHY you reached the conclusions
that you did. "
;_;
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]: Thank you for that...
I didn't realise that it was someone's birthday either until well after
the fact, but seeings that the person has been after him to get rid of
me for 3-4 years now (said so by the person), it just seemed like it
'could' have played some sort of role.
But... I "can't" remove ANYTHING from Hedda's server. Nor could I delete
any wiki-page. I did not have the priv of 13 or lower to be able to do
so. So, this blows his theory right out of the water.
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]: I
have many ideas going on and in the works that I would love, yes LOVE
to share with you and others and get some added input and ideas and help
with, but I'm afraid to bring them out in the open. ;_;
Sharing ideas can be very scary. :P And of course I can't promise anyone
that all – or even any – of their ideas would get used. But I still
think it's incredibly important to hear them. Even ideas which aren't
used help shape and form the final product - in some cases just as much
as the ideas that *are* used. :3 I'd like to think that if we could get
the site re-designed (both graphically, and structurally) we could then
send out an email to every account that has a valid email address
attached inviting them back to have a look at the new ET. *dreams*
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]: But...
I "can't" remove ANYTHING from Hedda's server. Nor could I delete any
wiki-page. I did not have the priv of 13 or lower to be able to do so.
So, this blows his theory right out of the water.
No, I know that. I don't think he meant 'delete' in that sense, but that
you can 'delete' your stuff in the same way a normal user can - wiping
the wiki and submitting a blank version, and of course the old stuff is
still there, but... the wiki is still gone/no longer functional.
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
Well, now I don't see this as valid, because if I make MY stuff, MY
wiki-pages (personal ones, not ones for the community), blanked last
versions, there is no problem for me to go to the previous version and
bring it up and submit it. Besides, if it is MY stuff, then it is MY
stuff. Not Hedda's nor anyone else's. If "I" choose to make MY stuff no
longer functional, well then, don't I have this right to do so AND it's
not like I could make ANYTHING he was 'assuming' I was going to do
permanent, now could I?
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
..And it still stands at just because "he assumed" what "he" thought I
was "going" to do, I deserved to be banned like I was some rule breaking
idiot? He himself stated that I had done "nothing" wrong, but yet, I
was banned for doing "nothing wrong". When it defiled my name all over
the Internet, did Hedda even lift a finger to do anything about what he
had done to me "for doing nothing wrong"? No and I didn't know what to
do about fixing it either, so apparently also then made it an even
bigger mess, or this is what I was told that "I" had done. Hedda did the
damage. Hedda should have fixed it. But he doesn't. He expects others
to clean up his messes for him. When the fire gets too hot in the ol'
kitchen, he skedaddles.
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]: If
"I" choose to make MY stuff no longer functional, well then, don't I
have this right to do so AND it's not like I could make ANYTHING he was
'assuming' I was going to do permanent, now could I?
Sure you do, but if someone I knew tried to get rid of a load of stuff
that I knew they'd worked really hard on, or said they were giving up on
something they'd worked really hard on, I'd still try and stop them (my
mom does this all the time to me, when I try and throw stuff away
<_< I later find out that she took it back out of the bin and hid
it somewhere).
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
Well, then if this was "his" eh-um "concern" about MY stuff, why didn't
he then email me back or message me on Elftown and say something like:
"I know you are upset and that maybe you aren't thinking too clearly at
the moment. Perhaps, you would consider just giving things 24 hours or
so to think about things before you do anything out of haste?"
Hedda KNOWS that I will do just about anything for him if I know it is what he wants or wanted.
People that do nothing wrong are not supposed to be punished. In lieu
that I have done so much for "his" sites (plural), including a
considerable amount of money donated as well, I do believe that I
deserved much better than what I was handed. Then when he tacked on to
one of his emails that I was "flip-flop" with caring about Elftown, he
knew he was just driving that ol' dagger in just a wee bit deeper.
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]: 'Cause that's just not Hedda's style? <_<
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]: Well, then perhaps, "he" needs the upgrade? LOLOL
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
Umm.. is it possible to allow PNGs along with GIFs on Elftown Graphics?
Otherwise, my graphics' pages will have to be pulled. Most all of my
graphics are PNGs and I'm not willing to compromise my art into GIFs. I
know it's been brought up before. I was one that did bring it up. If I
should bring this up somewhere else, well, I'm just not ready to do this
yet, like in a forum.
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]: His communication skills do, yeah. :P
Yeah. We updated the rules a few days ago to show that. :3 It's been
bought up loads of times by loads of people, but we figured that the
amount of people stuck using browsers that can't handle transparent PNGs
is now small enough to allow it (that, and google etc. are all pulling
support for those older browsers, too, so it's sort of "officially" okay
to not have to support them now :P).
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]: This is great! :) Thanks!
People's computers will be much more secure if they keep their browsers
up to date. Outdated browsers are just one of the tools hackers can make
use of to gain access to a computer. It's probably safe to assume that
many people do know this, but by the same token, also that many don't as
well.
2011-06-21 [SilverFire]:
Usually the people stuck on older browsers are people who have to
access the interweb from public libraries, universities, college, etc.
X_x Places like that are really bad at updating their software.
2011-06-21 [Artsieladie]:
Yeah, I hear ya, and so I've been told. My new computer came with
Internet Explorer 9 installed on it, so even the 6 version is really old
now, the version 7 is the one that started to recognise PNGs I think.
It took IE awhile to catch up with the real web world, which doesn't say
a whole lot for Microsoft.
2011-06-22 [Artsieladie]: In response to earlier statements:
'Other Council members have been retired, but they weren't stripped of their privs or kicked out of the forums,.."
"Actually, most of them have now, because I'm an evil fascist like that. >=3"
Then this must be the run down on the standings of whom has what:
[Hedda] - 1 (can: read PMs, delete wiki pages, restore comments, etc)
[SilverFire] - 4 ->2 ->1 (can: change own priv to 1, read PMs, delete wiki pages, restore comments, etc)
[Nehirwen] - Guard Captain - 13 (can delete wiki pages)
[All_Most PUNK] - Guard - 14
[Yuriona] - Guard - 14
[iippo] - Guard - 14
[Chimes] - Guard - 14
[Kaimee] - Guard - 14
[Malnu] - Guard 14
[Veltzeh] - Wiki Boss - 49
[Kyrinn] - 89 (possibly 79)
[Linderel] - 89 (possibly 79)
[Lothuriel] - 89 (possibly 79)
[hanhepi] - 89 (possibly 79)
[Alexi Ice] - 89 (possibly 79)
[Nioniel] - 89 (possibly 79)
[Flisky] - 89 (possibly 79)
[Thunder Cid] - 89 (possibly 79)
[Chel!] - 89 (possibly 79)
[Akayume] - 89 (possibly 79)
Trainees
[wicked fae mage] - 89
[Rice] - 89
Therefore, "everyone" else on this site has a priv of 90 or higher,
including people like: Sunrose, Calico Tiger, Lerune, Nita, to name a
few, which naturally would also mean that they are also denied access to
their own badge slot as well? Also, then, the only person on this site
that can delete wiki-pages besides you and Hedda, is Nehirwen, AND the
only two on this entire site that can read private messages are Hedda
and yourself.
Oh, and so 'all' those that are now retired from Guards and Council have
also been kicked out of the Crew and Guard forums as well?
2011-06-22 [SilverFire]: Nehi can read messages too (and that's mentioned on the Guards
wiki). I disliked having to deal with all the message harassment
reports by myself. o.< Cali certainly does have 90, since I had a
conversation with her about it and she removed herself from the forums,
(as did Sunrose). Without checking, I know that Sunrose has a far higher
priv level than she did – changed by herself – but I don't know about
Lerune or Nita.
All full council have at least 79 so that they can badge, some have 49
due to jobs that required them to edit lots of wikis which people kept
protecting. Trainees indeed only have 89.
There are about three 'veterans' left in the crew forum, which I left
because I knew they were prone to chipping in occasionally with useful
advice. Everyone else is indeed gone.
2011-06-22 [Artsieladie]:
Actually, I agree with you totally on this one. I think lower privs
should be applied wisely and only if they are needed. An active Council
member makes use of the privs, as does say, an active Guard, but once
they are retired, then they no longer need them, because they no longer
will likely 'use' them either.
I did the same on Elf12 and then I recorded who had what privs, so it
was readily available to know whom had what. But apparently, one of
those that I then applied this theory with after many discussions in the
forum about "cleaning house", didn't like that I did and took it
personally and then saw me as probably a "fascist" <-- O_O hehe...
too, and as a result, I ended up being considered such a villain and
then it was said that I couldn't be worked with, etc., until eventually
this person with help from her good friend, I think I can be pretty
sure, decided to go whatever lengths it would take to get me removed.
..And eventually they got their way. Once I was removed everything
related to me/with me was destroyed and deleted and then once they
accomplished this, they have not returned since.
I didn't make an exception for this person when I "cleaned house",
because this person was not doing their assigned jobs just as the rest
weren't and as I said, it had been discussed several times, that those
that weren't around any longer and/or weren't doing their jobs, then
they needed to be retired and when retired, one no longer is in need of
the privs that have been given to them when they were doing their
job(s). I do not believe in: "all those that aren't doing their jobs are
to be retired except so and so, because so and so is somebody in
a high position's friend". I believe in "whomever is not doing their
job(s) should be retired, period", straight across the board with NO
favouritism whatsoever.
2011-06-22 [SilverFire]:
I don't understand why people would want to keep the lower privs
anyway. <_< I hate all the extra buttons they add all over the
place. The first thing I'll do when I retire from stuff is get rid of
the privs. X)
2011-06-22 [Artsieladie]:
Yeah! This reminds me.. I remember when I first was given Guard privs
on Elf12. OMG there were pink boxes and little boxes by everything it
seemed! I was like: "Are things supposed to look like this?" But you do adjust and quite quickly. It just catches you a little by surprise at first.
2011-06-22 [SilverFire]: And the little check boxes by every single image in a presentation can muck up even the pretties profile. -_- [Pnelma Tirian] has a really cool profile, but the little check boxes pull it all apart. :(
2011-06-22 [Artsieladie]: Yes, they do. Trying to make your own house "work nicely" 'with' those little boxes and
'without' them, also, so when you view your own house, 'you' can live
with how it looks, but you also want it so when others view it, it will
look good for them as well.. it can be a bit tricky. :P
2011-06-30 [Artsieladie]: There's a question that has been bugging me for awhile.
If I create a wiki-page and on that wiki-page I place on it an image with a member's name as a working link
immediately following it in parenthesis, a thumbnailed version of that
image along with the link of the wiki-page under it, then appears in
that member's house at the bottom under "Latest appearances in photo
albums" AND also, that member is then automagically watching that
wiki-page.
If however, I decide that I want the wiki-page deleted (which means ALL
of its contents are removed from the wiki-page) and I ask for such and
then the wiki-page is then deleted, the thumbnailed image along with the
link to the wiki-page also then should disappear from the bottom of
that member's house as well, correct?
2011-06-30 [Artsieladie]:
In lieu as to what I was recently told, I think there is a need here
for a definitive explanation of the rights both the regular members have
and those that the crew has. People need to be informed just when they
are relinquishing their rights to their works and handing over the power
to a select few to be able to destroy whatever these select few so
decide to destroy.
2011-06-30 [Artsieladie]:
If a member creates a wiki-page, there should be something in place,
where the page creator gets to decide whether it is to be a personal
page or a community page. If the creator chooses "personal", then that
creator should have the right to do with that page as they want,
including having the ability to delete that page themselves should they
so choose. It may have personal information on it that that member does
not want another person to see, which would also include any person of
position here with the privs of 49 or lower. If a member has a personal,
private wiki-page, then NO ONE should be allowed to review it and/or
decide what is done with it, other than the creator.
If a page creator chooses the page to be a "community" page, then they
rescind the rights that they would have, if it were a personal page.
Both sides of the coin would need to be made clear, clarified in the
rights of members as aforementioned.
Members need to know here that even their password protected wiki-pages
can be accessed and read by all those here with privs of 49 and lower.
Therefore, members should have the right to know whom on this site has
the ability to do what. This information could be added to the Privs'
page.
2011-06-30 [SilverFire]:
"the thumbnailed image along with the link to the wiki-page also then
should disappear from the bottom of that member's house as well,
correct? "
That's not what happens now? Sounds like a bug. I guess that's why it was bugging you! :D Ba-dum. </really lame pun>
Re the second comment, I think I agree, but I'm not sure what you mean by 'destroy'.
"If a member creates a wiki-page, there should be something in place,
where the page creator gets to decide whether it is to be a personal
page or a community page. If the creator chooses "personal", then that
creator should have the right to do with that page as they want,
including having the ability to"
I would actually like something like this too - a bit more formal than
the current official banner. A crew member could designate a page
'official' when creating it in a way which would make it obvious to all
at a glance that it was an official page and which wouldn't require a
banner to be made every single time. It's on my 'pester Hedda about
this' to-do list. :P
2011-06-30 [Artsieladie]:
Actually, this was just tested on Elf12 and it worked just as it was
supposed to: the page was deleted and the image along with the link
disappeared from the bottom of the member's house as it's supposed to
do.
However, with this member's house on CatHug: http://www.cathug.com/member.html?membernr=2 there is a thumbnailed image along with the link still
at the bottom of his house, even though the page was deleted over 3
years ago and all of its contents of course, which also includes the
image that had his name as a link immediately following it. If there is
now nothing on the deleted page, how can the thumbnailed image and the
link to the page still be displayed under "Latest appearances in photo
albums"? Hedda deleted the page as he also took the ownership of over as
well, which of course taking the ownership he was not asked to do. He
was only asked to delete it.
*chuckles about the pun*
Well, so much of what I did for Elf12 was destroyed, even a page that
was connected to my graphics, that I placed with the contest, so the
kids would have something to work with for the contest. By doing such,
the people involved with the destruction of my work, also wiped a
considerable amount of Elf12's history, which I think also was wrong.
But basically, I've been told that all my work can be destroyed by a
select few and therefore I have NO say about my work whatsoever. What I
find really contradictory however, is that here, [Hedda]
banned me because he "assumed" or "thought" I was going to destroy my
stuff, but yet, others have been ACTUALLY ALLOWED to destroy my stuff,
and they have not been awarded any negative repercussions for their
behaviour whatsoever. This is double-standardish or contradictory.
Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of having it designated
"personal" or "community", perhaps displayed in the same area as where
the "page version", "date and time", and such are viewable, perhaps with
a "P" or a "C" even. ..And the selection or choice could be made in the
same general area as the title, keywords, password, etc., are filled
in.
If the creator selects "personal", then the creator should be able to
have the right to delete it as well and not have to ask someone else to
delete it, so that that person could then review its personal content
before they delete it. People have the right to privacy period. I would
however, recommend having a little box or window that would pop up
saying something like: "Are you sure you want to delete this page? Once
it is deleted, it CANNOT be brought back!"
2011-06-30 [Artsieladie]: PS... [Hedda] was NOT asked to "read" the page, either. He was simply asked to "delete" the page only. However, [Hedda]
DID read the page, took over the ownership, and then instead of
handling the issue on CatHug, where it should have been handled, as "he"
has since informed me that CatHug business should stay on CatHug and
not brought to Elftown, he brought the issue over to Elftown. I guess he
didn't have a big enough audience on CatHug for his reaming me out as
he did, including threatening to ban me then over a bloody wiki-page!
Apparently, by my asking for the page to be deleted, I must have felt it
was a mistake. Also, at that time, I didn't fully understand how the
name after an image worked, but I sure found out!
But... if I had had the right to delete the personal page of mine, he
wouldn't have been afforded the opportunity to humiliate and insult me
as he did over it. The page was also password protected, both for
viewing and editing.
Therefore, because of some of the stuff I've had to endure from the
heddate sites, I would like to see others spared of the same.
2011-06-30 [SilverFire]:
Obviously I don't have any say about how things work on Elf12 - I'm not
even a member there (and I don't think Hedda follows what's going on
there much, either), but on ET I've tried to make sure that graphics we
don't use any more end up in the Museum and that people are still given
credit for them.
I was thinking that designating it 'official' would perhaps do something
as drastic as change the colour of the whole page, but I haven't really
given it a lot of thought past the 'I want to be able to designate this
as official or private when I create it'.
The biggest thing I love about the wiki is how every page version is
recorded, so I'm not sure how much I like the idea of making it so
easily deletable, but I see where you're coming from.
I don't really want to comment on the final bit, because I have no idea
what went on, what was on the page, or anything at all about it really,
though from what you're saying it sounds like the name after the image
thing still works even if the page is password/forum protected? Which to
me sounds a bit odd... It's a private page, why is something from it
being displayed publicly? :/ I guess I'll have a faff and bring it up in
suggestions/bugs forum.
2011-06-30 [Artsieladie]:
Hedda even said that he doesn't have anything to do with Elf12 when he
told me that I could do with Elf12 as I liked. ..But then, he reneged on
his word and removed me as the site's moderator and he also made damn
sure that I was publicly humiliated there when he did it. I did ask
Hedda a long time ago if he hated me. Well, he must, because he has
certainly gone out of his way to insult me, humiliate me, etc., every
bloody chance he gets. I should have picked up on this many years ago. I
would have saved myself a whole lot of time, effort, money, and
humiliation for sure! But then keeping such a close eye on me as he
does, doesn't really make a whole lot of sense either. One doesn't
usually bother themselves with a person they despise after all. Oh, but
I'm sure he'll dispute this, too!
There are many places (wikis) that aren't worked with or used any more
on Elftown, but they are still a part of this site's history. It is
usually the norm to preserve the history. It's nice to be able to look
back and see how things were and then compare to the current status.
History is the soul of a place, whether it be real or online. If it
wasn't important, then it wouldn't be a subject taught in schools. I'm
pretty sure most everyone that has gone to school has had to take
"history" classes: their country's history, their state or providence's
history, world history, etc..
Having a different colour for a page is a good idea, too. Speaking of
colour, I think it would be nice to be able to have "wiki-page
environments". There could be a variety to choose from that members
could create to be used by members or people could learn how to make
their own wiki-page environments (backgrounds). ...And Elftown's wiki
system would be even more awesome. I think it would be also something
people would have to donate to Elftown for to be able to use the
feature, something similar to having the ability to use colour in the
houses when they donate.
Yes, I too appreciate the page versions. In fact they really also are a
bit of history. But if someone has a personal wiki-page with content on
it they no longer want or want on a wiki-page, then all the versions of,
they are unlikely to want either.
Umm.. well this was part of the "whole" picture for the purpose of
providing all the possible pertinent information I could think of. But
the main oddity, is the fact that the page has been long gone (over 3
years), but an image that was on the page, is still showing up in
the member's house, even though the page's content (which includes the
image at the bottom of the house) is no longer in existence. It's just
weird.
2011-07-01 [SilverFire]:
Making it a donor feature might make it too easy to abuse: People would
just ask their friend to make the page for them instead of donating.
What would happen if a wiki-changed ownership to a non-donor? Would
everything just suddenly be disabled – how do you envision that working?
I would say maybe it's a bug that got fixed on ET but not on Cathug, but
I'm pretty sure he updates the code for all of them when he fixes one
of them. :/ Odd indeed.
2011-07-01 [Artsieladie]:
Ah, yes, there are always people looking to beat the system. I'm not
sure how the first part you mention could be avoided, but there must be a
way. *more thinking needed* I imagine Hedda could devise some method to
get around it though.
As far as the second part, it could work like it does for having the
privs for iframes. If a person has the privs to place an iframe on a
page, the iframe works. But if the ownership is changed to a person that
does not have the privs, then the iframes no longer work. However, now
in saying this, couldn't this feature get abused as well in the same way
as a "background" feature, if it were to be? Hmmm...
Yeah, it appears that he does. I'm glad that I'm not the only one that finds it to be odd.
2011-08-05 [Simpet]: I
would say maybe it's a bug that got fixed on ET but not on Cathug, but
I'm pretty sure he updates the code for all of them when he fixes one of
them. :/ Odd indeed.
He doesn't.
Wri / Elf12 / Elfpack still have bugs there are fixed on Elftown. :P
2011-08-05 [Simpet]: (That was a good hour of reading..)
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]:
Yeah, but no matter... it IS still odd. Eh, but then, there IS a LOT
that's odd, now isn't there? ...Ummm... or IS it? There's one very
common, all too common, "common denominator" and whomever thinks they
may k-n-o-w the answer, please do speak! Oh, but not all at once now!
lol
Well, this is not something that can possibly be explained in a few sentences, wouldn't you agree, Stephen? *pokes* ;)
One more thing.... I would certainly like to know what all of you
reading this, would do, if you were in my shoes. For all those whom
think and have thought that I've been just imagining everything, well, I
guess I haven't been after all, have I?
But, may I just say this? I sooooo understand how difficult this whole,
seemingly bizarre situation is to accept as being real or even
fathomable. It took me a looong time, to first suspect, and then even
longer to allow myself to believe such could be really happening! I
tried to explain this to myself so many times in a way that wouldn't
point me in the direction everything was pointing me in. The countless
excuses I made up for him; the denial.
But the most difficult aspect? This was having to suspect the person I
NEVER, EVER wanted TO suspect, much less gradually be forced to by too
many incidences. But... he wants NOTHING to do with me! Can't you all
tell this? I'd have to say, pretty damned interested in someone he is
not interested in!
This all began long before the shit hit the fan here, which was back in
2007 (that I know of), but one of his excuses was that "I" was a
troublemaker. Will anyone please.. pleeeeease tell me what trouble I was
causing in 2007? Also, will anyone also please tell me what right does
anyone have, excuse or not, to invade the privacy of another?
....And the little, red heart, he did place in my badge slot the day
after Valentine's Day and now I have even more that proves he did!
Does anyone want to know what I'm asking for? I'm simply asking for...
"the truth"! I am NOT looking for to punish anyone, ANYONE, or to hold
grudges, etc.. I want the truth, because it is the truth that is the
only thing which will stop this monstrosity in its tracks.
Question is... who is going to be the 'bigger' person, and decide to
come forward? Or are all those that know something just going to sit
back and allow it to fester and grow even bigger? If this be the case,
then at some point this whole mess is going to go "kaboom!" At some
point my patience will have run out and so, I will then hand this over
to those that will be asking for a whole lot more than just the truth
and of anyone and everyone involved. ..And if this day comes? No one
here can truthfully say that I didn't try my damnedest to fix this
first.
Pulling any fast numbers, won't be a good idea, because I have enough
data to be able to tell when one is telling the truth or lying. There
has already been way too much evasiveness, circumvention, patronisation,
the stretching of the truth, etc..
I want to work this out more than anyone knows, but I will no longer
accept being the "fall person" or the "scapegoat" or the person that
several others here continue to look down their noses at. I will not beg
or grovel or bow before any human being. Besides which, as I've also
learned, something that was made out to be ALL me, was already in the
works AGAINST me in the year of... 2007! These statements particularly,
were provided to me from and along with a conversation which was
centered around me that took place in 2007. The person said: "I don't
care how she is gotten rid of as long as she is" and "I don't know what
Hedda sees in her anyway". So.... WHAT w-a-s already brewing back in
2007? But yet, I'm this awful person? It's about damn time someone else
besides myself gets placed under a microscope, me thinks.
For further reading... <diary:1139747>
Also, even an apology would go a very long way...
----
---
----
---
2011-08-05 [Simpet]: ;-;
Long messages.. so many of them. You should go into writing, on novels. You'd be spectacular at it. >_<
As I have told you numerous times Sharon, I believe that it would be
best for you to try to disassociate yourself from all of Hedda's sites,
because that would be a good way to start this healing process. You
believe he has you tapped on your computer, but you now have a solution
to that. You could just walk away from it all.
I don't know what's happened. There has been a lot of very weird
reoccurring circumstances, I know, but there's been little to no solid
evidence of anything that I know of, personally.
If there are people who are hiding a truth from the rest, it doesn't seem like they're going to just suddenly come up and admit it all.
And honestly, at this point, I'm not sure who did what to who, and when, even from just your PoV. /=
You've told me conflicting ideals before, so now I'm pretty thoroughly confused.
You once told me that "someone" was forcing "his" hand to act against
you, and then you then later told me you believe that the "someone" who
you had believed was forcing "his" hand was actually innocent and a
victim, manipulated by "him" and his computer skillz. Now it seems you
believe that the "someone" who you had previously called innocent is no
longer innocent.
So, I am completely lost...
2011-08-05 [SilverFire]: To quote Simpet: "disassociate yourself from all of Hedda's sites"
That's what I'd do, in your shoes, Artsie. And it's what I have done, in
the past, when I felt faced with unwanted attention from someone on
another website. I just stopped going to that website. Stopped logging
in, stopped visiting it. Still haven't to this day.
2011-08-05 [Simpet]:
(That would have been a fantastic line for me to make a typo on.
'Specially because I am amazing at typing "form" instead of "from".)
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]:
But... I have most of all my work uploaded to the sites! Since it has
already been proven to me before that I can't entrust others with my
work... what do I do about this?
Besides, you aren't seeing the whole picture and I can't paint it and
its surrealism. Only those that have gone through the very same can
understand.
...And by me just leaving, what will this fix? So I'm supposed to just
leave and then so many others can just be left believing the worst about
me? My name won't be cleared and then what, the person(s) responsible
then just get to what, gloat? Gain some more at my expense?
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]: What exactly is on this page, Stephen?
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]: SilverFire, it's quite obvious by now, that the problem is not "just" on his sites.
2011-08-05 [Simpet]: I'm aware of what is on it Sharon. :P
You've also explained it to me before.
However, you've also stated that he doesn't have access to your new hardware. So that's free from any possible problem.
You've also stated that the number that's called is a work number, not your personal number.
I'm not saying that I *want* you to leave. I'm saying that I honestly think it would be *healthy* for you.
If he is indeed tampering in your life, if you stop coming to his sites
and begin using a computer he cannot access, and otherwise seriously
limit his ability to find and contact you, then chances are he would
give up and lose interest anyway.
Stalkers / Harassers tend to lose interest in their "games" when the subject stops giving them the responses that they desire.
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]:
The number 634-2293 is in my house. It is classified as my work number
because I had it associated with my business. But I also used it for
personal usage. It's a PRIVATE line. However, now, if I want to make
sure my conversations are absolutely private, I have to borrow someone
else's phone. I have a trac fone, but I use that very little because
it's too expensive.
I sure as hell hope not!
..And where does this leave MY STUFF that he so emphatically told the
crew and God knows who else that I was going to "destroy/delete my stuff"? May I also remind you, Stephen, of: <gb:1139196>.
I have been trying to close up shop on two of his sites and on both of
them, I suddenly experienced issues preventing me to do so... and these
issues are ONLY on the sites that I began to close up shop on.
..And HOW MANY examples, HOW MANY "coincidences" are required pointing
to one person, before people finally get the bloody message?
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]: ..And has anyone even come to the conclusion that this is WRONG?
2011-08-05 [Simpet]: I'm honestly far too tired to get into a large debate..
When you say "MY STUFF", what do you mean? I've never exactly understood that.
Depends on the person, I suppose. Even if someone does agree with you
though, what do you expect to happen or come of it? I mean, I understand
you wanting closure, but what do you really want here? It's obvious
Hedda isn't going to just pop up and go "I'm guilty, I did it all, I'm
sorry." Regardless of if he did or not. I don't understand your line of
thinking anymore.. >.<
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]: Hmm.. and I didn't start this one: "13:57:40 (4h ago) [Simpet]"
Gee, I don't know, Stephen, but perhaps, you would know what "your
stuff" is? Your stuff is "your stuff", is it not? Then, why is it so
difficult for you to understand that "my stuff" is "my stuff" just as
"your stuff" is "your stuff"? However, allow me to clarify as short and
as simply put as possible (no walls of text!)... by "my stuff" I mean
ALL THAT I HAVE CREATED IS MY STUFF. MY STUFF BELONGS TO ME AND MYSELF
ALONE. THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS ANY RIGHTS IN REGARDS TO IT PERIOD IS ME!
Clear enough? ;)
I expect honesty! ..And what a foreign concept around these parts it
seems to be! I have not asked him to announce a "tell all" to the world.
The world does not need to know. I have only asked that he be honest
and come clean with me. ..And to give me the chance to understand why,
as I've also stated to wipe the slate clean, to forgive him! Satisfied? I
want to forgive him, but "he" has to give "me" this chance. This also
applies to others here as well.
I ---- ---! Walking away or turning one's back on a situation never solves a thing. Only cowards do this and I am no coward.
Besides, since: "Honestly, most people just think you're making
everything up, seeing problems where there are not problems, and you're
otherwise insane.", so what exactly is my leaving going to do for this
situation? What? I'm supposed to simply leave, and just accept how
people are perceiving me to be?... your own words. Especially when it
couldn't BE farther from the truth? Would YOU defend your reputation?
No, I'm not insane. I am not making everything up. But if I just up and
leave, then people here will never know the real truth.. that I am not
making everything up. If I were making everything up, then I would have
very good reason TO leave, rather than stand and fight my ground.
2011-08-05 [SilverFire]: I wouldn't go as far as to say *anything* here is obvious. :)
2011-08-05 [Simpet]:
Actually, to me, anything that I create that is deemed official becomes
"The Site's Stuff (IE: the Council and Hedda) and I agree that I am
donating said stuff and therefore giving up ownership of it. (We've had
this conversation before.)
The only things I'd view as mine would be for example my personal
writings on WritersoCo or the writings lost within my Elftown page
archives.
And to be honest, no. If I were you, I'd leave. My reputation to a group
of people online (even if I do cherish many of them!) is not worth the
anguish to me, that you have expressed to me that you feel. Reputation
and pride be damned; taking care of myself and doing what's best
emotionally for me would take priority.
Also: If Hedda comes clean to only you, and you forgive him,
wouldn't that still result in the rest of the world not knowing the
"real truth", unless you yourself exposed his words to everyone?
And, when I said I don't want to debate I meant I did not say that to
start an argument with you, Sharon. You know I've always been your
friend and I support you, and I want you to do what's the best thing for you.
I don't really care if Hedda is a creep or not (I'm not saying it's OK
if he is, or that it's right, or otherwise excusing his behaviour,
before you assume that) I am saying that my concern here is for YOU and what all of this has emotionally done to you.
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]:
Well, then, I don't know what to say to you SilverFire, other than,
that the material presented on this page, is quite obviously spelling
out viable enough data to get the attention of some, and even some that
are well qualified in this particular field. So maybe this is it. You
just aren't qualified enough in this regard?
Since the tech service agreed to finding out where and what my problem
was with my computer and how such seemingly bizarre occurrences could be
happening, one of the techs, whom also specialises with phones, then
talked to me and told me that my phoneline is the avenue being used to
access my computer and he explained to me how. I was advised strongly to
take this up with the FCC, and also supply the FCC with the reports
from the tech service along with ALL of the data I have collected
regarding this entire situation.
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]:
Did I mention or include "official" in "my stuff"? Do you have over
11,000 graphics that YOU have CREATED uploaded to this server? Not to
mention a ton of other art, likely well over 300 of YOUR poems, plus
stories written... just for starters? What exactly would any of this be?
This is not MY personal stuff?
Right. So you would not mind at ALL that your privacy was being invaded
and then you wouldn't also mind being told that what was retrieved in
this fashion was then also "shared" with others, especially a person
that has been trying to get rid of you for like 4 years? You wouldn't
mind? You would just casually dismiss it all and say, "Oh well, dear
intruder. Please do help yourself to my personal and private life. ..And
also, while you're at it, dear intruder, please also feel free to
intrude on the privacy of all those whom communicate with me as well."
2011-08-05 [Simpet]: I'm pretty sure most of those graphics are on Elftown Graphics, so the same applies. A donation is a donation. :3
Honestly, I don't think Hedda cares about your stuff. If he did, he
could just as well back it up to a different location anyway. If you
want to back it up to your own location so you no longer need to come
here to view it, then I understand that.
Elsewise, I don't know what you mean, again. Nothing is happening to
"Your Stuff". I don't understand what you want to happen to it,
either...
I didn't say I wouldn't mind. At no point, did I say I would casually just accept the entire situation. I said, that I would leave the situation. Previously, you felt as though you had no escape, because your only computer was being tapped/keylogged/etc. However, you have a new, completely clean computer.
That is no longer the case. You can still maintain an online life, and just leave all this behind. That's what I would
do. I would take the chance I have now, and I would leave. Instead of
staying here, being pissed off at Hedda and other shadowy-figures
who you're not sure who they are, and arguing with my friends and people
trying to help me, I would leave. I would even be able to keep in
contact with them on my Facebook, which means I wouldn't lose anyone.
(Everyone and their dog has a Facebook now.)
I think you should do what's best for you, and let this go. Just turn your back and leave.
It's not being a coward, it's doing something that's good for you, and
accepting that you emotionally and mentally need a break from this. You could
make the feelings you have now, the past. You could leave them all
behind, and start in a way where you don't feel scared and threatened,
and all you need to do is stop logging on a few sites. You can keep all
"your stuff", and your friends.
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]:
If he were to come clean with me, the only thing that would be enough
for him to say is that his claims that I'm paranoid, etc., were
unfounded for reasons that will not be disclosed; the details, the rest
of the world need not know.
If he had answered me when I first addressed him on 2008-01-07, what has
escalated since would not have, period. I mustered up the courage TO
address him at the beginning, when I first began to suspect the reason
behind some pretty bizarre occurrences, because I didn't want something
bigger to develop. Well, now, look at what happened? Others shouldn't
have even gotten mixed up in this, if he had responded to me then... in a
"normal" fashion, that is.
Besides, there is more to this situation, that I am slowly but surely
uncovering. It is becoming clearer and clearer that there is someone
else very much involved and was involved even before I began to suspect
anything. As I uncover a little bit more and a little bit more, I am
beginning to more clearly see "why" someone wanted to get rid of me 4
years ago and this truth, all of it, IS going to come out eventually.
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]: Bullshit!!! MY GRAPHICS ARE MY GRAPHICS PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
2011-08-05 [Simpet]: Argh..
I'm not going to keep this conversation going. I've made my point clear to you.
I think you should do something good for yourself and leave these
sites before you just completely snap. You have a way out, take it.
=/
Save all "YOUR STUFF" as you like to yell it is, then just log off and do something that's healthy for you.
Also, before you donate things in the future, you should always
bear in mind that even if you decide you dislike what you have donated
to, you have still made the donation and you have allowed
something else the copyright to your donation. You didn't donate all
your stuff on terms and conditions, you established those later; once
you got pissed off at Hedda and co.
Anyway, I seriously hope you decide to do what's good for you. That's what I'm interested in.
/end of arguement
2011-08-05 [Paul Doyle]:
Sharon, all the best wishes for your speedy recovery. May God help your
tortured soul and guide you to a happier, rational life.
You guided me here, so this is why I am posting this one comment. And now I am done.
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]:
That WAS done by the way.. within a VERY short time after I had
uploaded my Galadriel to Box.net, I was notified of the download. ..And
because I had made a statement to the effect that I would not upload
Galadriel to Elftown. Only 'part' of Galadriel is uploaded here now.
Right.. like I can "entrust" my stuff to here? LMAO! What? So it can get
used here even though "I", the person whom created it, was treated like
shit and ditched and dogged? Sorry, I watch and preside over my own
stuff. Thank you! It's already been defiled once for absolutely NO valid
reason, why on earth would I trust that it wouldn't be defiled or
misused again? If I'm not here, then NO ONE gets to use MY STUFF without
my expressed written permission per piece per use.
Shadowy figures? Gee, Stephen, please say hi to all of your coaches,
will you, please? Is that 'brown' I see there on your nose? Allow me to
take a closer look. Yepper! I'll be damned! *grabs feather duster* It
doesn't quite do the trick. *goes for the scrubbing brush instead* Now
hold still! ;)
Arguing with 'my' friends? What friends, exactly? My 'friends'
understand and can see very clearly what I'm up against and do give me
credit for having the guts I have. 'My friends' wonder why there haven't
been apologies made to me. I don't suggest you even mention Facebook,
because I have "mysteriously" lost many of my friends on Facebook that I
DID NOT UNFRIEND AND THEY DIDN'T UNFRIEND ME EITHER! But this too, is
just my friends and I.. all of us just having an over active imagination
I suppose?
If I leave, I DO NOT LEAVE MY STUFF AVAILABLE HERE FOR ANYONE, which
means that 1000's of my wiki-pages will need to be deleted. My stuff
will still be on the server, but then the only person that can be held
accountable if "my stuff" gets used without "my" permission will rest
entirely on [Hedda]'s shoulders. Sweden is not a "lawless" land, as my Swedish fwiend has informed me it isn't anyway. ;)
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]: May God help you with your very tortured soul as well, Paul.
2011-08-05 [Nioniel]:
I'm just popping in to ask this question: how do you consider it proper
to "take back" the graphics that you donated? You and I have already
spoken extensively on all of the other topics, so I'm really just trying
to address this one thing.
I have personally donated to a charity which I later found out was
supporting a certain network that I despise. Despite not wanting MY
money to be going to support that network, there would be no way for me
to get "my" money back, as since it had been donated to the charity, it
had become their money.
I'm honestly confused as to how a donation can be taken back, or else have terms later applied to the using of it. O.o
2011-08-05 [Simpet]: ... Okay Sharon.
I didn't insult you, once. At any point. All I did was say over and over
I want you to do the best for you to take care of yourself. However,
I'm not going to have you insult me, when I've been trying to help you, and I've been your friend since before you even knew how to correctly format HTML tags on these sites.
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]:
My copyright to ALL of MY STUFF BELONGS TO ME AND TO ME ALONE! NO ONE
ELSE! PEERIODD! I think donating over $1000.00 should be way more than
enough, that I DO NOT and WOULD NOT ever expect or want back. But it is
only money. NOT important. However, that which is the fruits of my
labour, my creativity, NO ONE is going to think they can just use as
they wish, meanwhile I'm treated like total crap. Besides, since so many
think here that I'm just a big waste to everyone's time, then SO IS MY
CREATIVITY. It IS a "package deal"!
2011-08-05 [Nioniel]:
But when you first submitted the graphics to be donated, and when they
were accepted as donations, you didn't have terms attached to them. You
gave them freely, because you love the site and wanted to see it grow.
We don't remove graphics for people who have donated and then have been
banned, or who have not returned to the site in years and years, I don't
understand how the situation here would be any different than that. A
donation is a donation.
2011-08-05 [Nioniel]: Also, how have you commented 13 minutes ago when you've been "logged out" for two hours? O.O
2011-08-05 [Simpet]:
She's just "checking for more comments" and responding without
refreshing the page. (Thus, it doesn't refresh her Elftown cookie to say
when she was here.)
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]: ..And exactly what was this supposed to be implying then, Stephen: "...and other shadowy-figures who you're not sure who they are.."?
I'm so damn sick of being treated like I'm making everything up, just
like Paul comes strolling onto the page and leaving yet, another insult!
He can surely make an insulting remark, but yet doesn't say boo about
the content of this page. In fact, there hasn't been much of anything
said in regards to the content on this page.
Nioniel: I understand what you are saying in regards to the money. As I
just said here a bit ago in a previous comment, the money I have
donated, I do NOT want back, I do NOT, would NOT expect it back. My
creativity, however, is a whole different can of worms. It IS a part of
me that stems way back to my childhood, which I will not get into here. I
WILL NOT EVER allow anyone to defile me, treat me like shit, and then
simply allow them to have a very big part of me to be able to use as
'they' wish. NEVER! I never in a million, gazillion years ever thought
that I would wind up being treated as I have been on a site/sites that I
have loved and promoted so damn much!!! But what? So I'm supposed to
just leave "a part of me here" for anyone and everyone to use as they
wish, but while the rest of me is nothing more than a piece of crap to
some here that they would scrape off the bottom of their shoe? Not
happening. NOT!
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]: What? Are you serious? I've been logged out for 2 hours!? Oh well, it's just something else that's s-t-r-a-n-g-e! Add it to the umpteen other "unexplainables"!
A am, Stephen, "checking for comments"? I'm just writing comments. But..
even so, I should NOT have a "logged out" status... since as can be
witnessed here, I am NOT "logged out".
2011-08-05 [Simpet]: .And exactly what was this supposed to be implying then, Stephen: "...and other shadowy-figures who you're not sure who they are.."?
You have told me before, you believed Sunrose masterminded this entire thing, and that she was controlling Hedda.
You then told me, that you believed Sunrose was actually being
controlled by Hedda, and he had intentionally set you two against one
another.
You've also told me that you believe Yuri has a grudge against you and
was out to take you out, and I know she doesn't. She may have done
something intentionally to irritate you in the past, but she never aimed
to take you down. She cared a lot about you, you know. I'm aware you
did for her as well, I'm not trying to give you a reason to attack me /
defend yourself.
You have also said you believe Kryinn was involved in things, via some Twitter thing that happened.
You've named other names to me as well, that I won't name unless you ask
me to. You have pointed your finger at anyone who has said something to
disagree with you, and accused them of being against you or kissing
Hedda's ass. You just did the exact same thing to me.
So, when I said "shadowy figures" I literally meant you accusing people
who happened to anger you at that time. You've also told me you don't
think any of them are truly responsible. Which is confusing, because if
that were true, then no one would know this truth you claim people know
and refuse to admit.
I haven't said you make everything up. I've already discussed this page with you. We've had phone calls about it. A few times.
I've agreed with you that things do seem really weird. There's a lot of
coincidences and I've stated it seems weird there are so many. I've
never said that I do or don't think anyone is the bad guy. I've only
ever tried to talk to you and make you feel better, and encourage you to
do things to help yourself out.
Despite that, and despite the fact I stood by you while you've insulted
my friends and hurt people I care about, and that I have always been
here for you to lean on for the last six fucking years, you can
still find it just as easy to throw insults at me and accuse me of
kissing ass. You should know me better than that, Sharon. I'm really,
really, disappointed. Not because of your Elftown-Hedda-Chaos fiasco, but because you proved that all those years, hours and times of friendship really didn't mean much to you at all.
2011-08-05 [Simpet]: A am, Stephen, "checking for comments"? I'm just writing comments. But.. even so, I should NOT have a "logged out" status.
I've done it in Bob's Diner.
The wikicomments is not a refresh of the page, therefore you can idle
out. I've idled out doing it before, and I've watched Akane Ice idle
out. It's nothing suspicious.
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]:
Nioniel: I gave everything "of myself" so willingly, so freely. ;_; I
just couldn't do enough in my own eyes. ;_; ..And just look where all my
giving has gotten me! Just look! ;_;
2011-08-05 [Artsieladie]: There's a difference between being "idle" and being "logged out". "Logged out" is what Nioniel just stated.
Is this all you remember in our conversations that you also had your own
thoughts and opinions in regards to other people? Huh, Stephen? You
don't see me airing in front of everyone things that YOU have said,
though, do you? Just as with Paul and others that have spoken to "me"
'about' others. I'm not blabbering to the world this "private" talk
though, am I? Do you feel better now? You are "sitting on the fence",
Stephen.
Does anyone know how difficult it is to try and piece the pieces of a
puzzle together, one little, tiny bit at a time? Then add deliberate
circumvention by the ones I needed help with from, and it made my row to
hoe that much more difficult. Then to see and witness others just
laughing away, making fun of me, every time I turned around, saying that
I was just imagining stuff that isn't there or wasn't, just helped me
sooooooo much! Gee, how can I ever thank all those that did this for me,
enough?
2011-08-05 [Nioniel]:
Personally, I see donating graphics like donating items to Goodwill.
I've donated blankets I've crocheted to Goodwill, and even if the people
who ended up with them would rather spit on me than look at me, I still
wouldn't be able to take them back. So though I do disagree with you on
the idea of you being able to remove graphics you've donated, I do
agree with you that you should be able to come to this site without
facing ridicule and insult, as long as none is coming from you directed
at others. Everyone who is a member of this site ought to be able to
enjoy Elftown as the artistic community it is, and should really "live
and let live."
Perhaps a break from the site would be good for you. I know that at
times when I've been experiencing stress due to Elftown, I've found that
a bit of a vacation from logging on has allowed me to return to the
site with a new perspective, or at least a bit better of an outlook.
It taking a break from the site isn't something you care to do, then
perhaps just blocking those who upset you and working on your own
projects would be best. If you feel as though Elftown has given you
nothing in return for all you've given, why not leave and start fresh?
But if you think that some good could come your way through this site or
because of this site, then focusing on how to better things and leaving
the past in the past might be best.
It seems as though you'll never get the responses you want from the
people you'd like to get them from, so it seems as though you've really
only got the two (healthy) choices; either leave the site and say "fuck
it" to everything and start fresh, or continue to return to the site and
try to rebuild without regard or consideration for those who spurn you.
Of course, there are other choices, just none that could possibly lead to your happiness. :(
2011-08-05 [Nioniel]: You may have just been idle. :/
I noticed that your status was "last seen 2 hours ago." I assumed that meant logged out, but apparently, not so. :P
2011-08-05 [Simpet]:
Yes, I do remember that Sharon. That's why I haven't said everything
you've told me. Actually, you made it more than public knowledge you
thought Sunrose was hellbent on destroying you.
I haven't actually relayed anything personal you said about anyone;
other than opinions you didn't make much effort to hide in the first
place.
I've always been on the fence, Sharon. It's the internet, and to be
honest, I've never really cared enough to get myself emotionally
involved. I care about my friends. I cared about you. I cared about you
enough to talk to you about a world that I've intentionally avoided, all
this silly drama shit that seems to hit Elftown. That never did seem to
really make an impact on you, Sharon. Not that it matters now, to you
I'm just like Yuri, Paul, and the others. I'm a friend who "betrayed"
and "laughed" at you.
Does anyone know how difficult it is to try and piece the pieces of a puzzle together, one little, tiny bit at a time? etc etc
You know, that's not really any of our problems. Some of us were there
for you, as a friend who cared about you and wanted to help you. You
managed to chase most of those away now though. You have a chance to
leave it all, or as Nioniel has said, you could just ignore it all.
I have some idea on how you feel about your graphics, and parts of
yourself that you put effort and time into, and the result made you feel
completely disregarded like you had wasted your time. You've made me
feel that way. About my friendship with you, Sharon.
2011-08-06 [Artsieladie]:
Thank you, Nioniel. :) But items that are donated to good will are
items that one "no longer wants" or has any use for. This in NOT the
case in regards to 'my art'. Perhaps, if my graphics were numbered of
only a few, this wouldn't bother me quite so much, but they number in
the 1000s, which is a whole lot more than just something to dismiss
casually.
If I had thought that I was going to get treated here as I have, I would
have thought twice about everything. Trust me, I would have.
I have toyed with the idea many times about leaving all of the Heddate
sites. In fact on two of the sites that I've decided to do just this and
so, close up shop, I've been faced with issues that prevent me from
doing so. ONLY on the two sites where I began to put this agenda in
motion however. Just another odd coincidence I suppose.
As far as trying to rebuild, I've tried this as well, but I can feel the
dissension here even from people I haven't even ever had any dealings
with. It's so thick here, one can cut it with a knife. Then Stephen just
very recently confirmed how so many here still revere me, but he is not
the only one that has informed me.
About sunrose, since Stephen has made sure to bring her into this conversation..
.
I have said several times that I am sorry for how things have gone down
between her and I. ...And I am. But since.. I have been informed 'by
her', that Hedda has been sharing stuff of mine with her. How lovely!
Lapping up the gravy makes her completely innocent I suppose. But the
real kicker is... she also just recently informed me that she's been
after Hedda to get rid of me for like 3-4 years.. her words. (So it
would make anyone wonder why it was on her birthday that I was banned.)
Which also then confirms what was shared with me, a conversation
centered around me in which she stated: "I don't care how she's gotten
rid of as long as she is" and "I don't see what Hedda sees in her
anyway". ...And this conversation took place way back in 2007, BEFORE
the shit hit the fan. So apparently my demise was being plotted even
before I had an inkling of what was coming down.
So, I guess she HAS been "hellbent" on destroying me after all, eh
Stephen? The key question here is, "Why?" Back in 2007 I 'thought' she
and I were friends. Back in 2007, the thought never even crossed my mind
that she was 'pretending' to be my friend. ...And apparently she has
known all along that [Hedda]
saw 'something' in me and it must have been "something he liked",
because otherwise, the "I don't know what Hedda sees in her anyway"
statement, she wouldn't have made. ..And this is why, [Hedda]
won't admit to placing the little, red heart in 'my' badge slot. If he
had placed it in 'hers', there would not have been a problem with him
admitting to such.
Oh but, wait, I'm the bad person here.. still. Apparently my gut wasn't too far off the track after all.
By the way... is anyone here forgetting the "alarm" that was posted
about 'fooling around with Hedda'? ..And then a "Sorries" was seen in a
person's mood right afterwards, after the alarm was promptly taken down?
Right Stephen.. It's quite amazing how differently you speak to me when
it's a one on one than how you speak to me when others are watching. In
private you support me, but out in the open you chime in along 'with'
others? Actually, you aren't alone in this respect. Many support me in
'private', but become quite silent out in the open when it comes time to
speak up in "my" defense. Please note, I have said "many", but
certainly not all. The trouble is, if anyone does speak up in my defense
out in the open, they will then be shot down right along with me, which
has also been proven. So I do understand why people keep their silence
out in the open.
I've had to swallow some pretty hard statements made by you as well,
Stephen. If friends can't say or express what they are feeling to each
other, then what does this say for the friendship? One example of what
you have said to me that cut very deeply is, you told me that I'm
consumed with hatred. I'm consumed with hatred because I am trying to
defend myself? Do you or does anyone expect me to just roll over like a
good, little, submissive, puppy dog? Don't hold your breath!
Still waiting for discussion in regards to the content of this page...
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Greetings everyone!
Calls_To_Myself
"Comments On..."
Comments from Elftown.com's "Calls_To_Myself" wiki-page,
the site owner is concealing from the public's view:
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